Box fish toxins

[k-dawg]

I purchused a yellow box fish forgetting at the time of purches that they excret toxins when stressed to the point of death or after they die. I quickly removed it not wanting it to kill all my other fish and placed it in a 25 gallon that it is small enough to fit in for a good while until it grows a little. But still I think it would look great in the tank I intended it to be in with the fish I have in it. Never actually having had one before, how much of a threat do they really pose? I've read to just watch and remove it if it looks stressed or being attacked, but wouldn't that be too late? And what if it died suddently with out any warning? If I were to find it dead one day would that be too late? I really want it in that other tank but not at the risk of the lives of my other fish.

 

[broncofish]

K-dawg, I need to ask a few questions first. I'm guessing this is a yellow cubicus? What tank mates? Size of tank? Filtration? do you have cleaner shrimps? what do you plan on feeding it? They are not a big risk factor if you have planned well for them, but that 25g will be outgrown quickly.

 

[scotts]

KD,
I asked the same question about a cowfish a while ago. You can do a seach for cowfish and see what people replied. Look for the thread started by scotts.
The gist of the thread was that while everyone has heard about this problem, no one on this thread has ever had a tank die off due to the toxins released by a cowfish. Similar to your boxfish.
I cannot comment on the conditions of your tank, just that they do not seem to be a problem. Except that they grow big.
Scott

 

[irenicus]

How could you forget that a boxfish is poisonous? That's the one characteristic that sticks out about the species. Don't keep him with hyper fish our you'll have a dead tank.

 

[broncofish]

Originally posted by Irenicus
How could you forget that a boxfish is poisonous? That's the one characteristic that sticks out about the species. Don't keep him with hyper fish our you'll have a dead tank.
Have you ever had one? I have and it is with some pretty hyper little fellows, and no nuked tank. Before everybody hops on the toxin bandwagon here, please add input from experiance, not "well I heard?" Toxin factor way over blown.

 

[k-dawg]

I forgot that they had toxins because I never actually had one before. But it's not tank conditions that I would be concerned about, as in size or tankmates or water quality. I have all those things worked out. I'm simply concerned about if it were to die at any point in owning it. I know there is a lot of miss information out there and I just wanted to hear from those who have actually had experience with them. All though most info give is basically true people tend to either overstate or understate the importance of things. The only person I know who has had one was one of my friends. He had a cow fish in a 18 gallon and it died shortly after bringing it home and he found all of his fish dead with it. If it released toxins in a tank that small that could easily explain why they all died but I was just wondering how much a larger tank would dilute the toxin. In other words how strong is it really? And yes it is a yellow cubicus. All I really need to know is how significant a risk to the other fish it posses in a large tank. And bye the way, I have no intention of housing it in the 25 gallon for its life. I don't even plan on leaving it in there until it out grows the tank, just until I figure out where he can safely go.

 

[irenicus]

While I haven't had a boxfish, I have friends that have made the mistake. When your playing with nukes, one should be error on the side of safety. I mistated when I said hyper fish. What I meant was aggressive feeders and personalities. Just don't want to hear about another tank that bites it because of a out of place boxfish.

 

[bterry29]

I don't have much experience with these type of fish. I have a small cowfish which has been in my tank for about a month. It gets along with all of the other fish just fine. I have never seen it be aggressive or others be aggressive towards it. It eats well. I was also concerned about release of the toxins but my LFS said not to worry.

 

[broncofish]

OK here is the story of my first boxfish, and you guys tell me if you have to worry. In 2002 I deployed to afghanistan, and left my 55g in the care of my wife(now ex-wife). Everything was fine(at least according to her) according to her, just the tank was a bit noisy. When I came home the first thing I heard was the water falling from my protein skimmer til about 1/4 of the way down the tank, it seems she had stopped topping off the water By this point My corals were toast, and she was smart enough to remove those, my clownfish had died(also pulled those out) but floating in the tank was my tiny little boxfish(about 2") and he was toast. Wife said he had probably died yesterday. Amazingly despite the supposed "NUKING" qualities my firefish, sixline wrasse, crabs, and snails were all still alive. Hell I'm amazed they lived through the salinity(well over 1.032). My most current boxfish now lives with 2 percs, a scooter, crabs, shrimp, corals(look out they will nip featherdusters). I have yet talked to anybody who has had a tank "nuked" by these fish, but I have talked to several people who have had these fish die in their systems. Which leads to another point. I have seen these fish described as "easy" on the care level, and that is just not true. Boxfish are my passion in this hobbie, and I can tell you most people who comment on them have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. As a matter of fact I'm going to go post a survey, please feel free to respond.

 

[k-dawg]

So far my box fish is still alive but I still have yet to get it to really eat. I eats nothing I put in the tank, and ocasionaly shows mild intrest in what hits the water but very quick goes back to ingoring it. Most I've seen it do was to peck at rocks, though I'm sure it's not really getting feed by any means from that, but it doesn't even do that anymore. I don't know what to do with it. I think I've mentioned before that it's the first time I've tried a boxfish, is there some thing I need to know about how they feed or is it just not taking to it. I've offered it every thing I could think to offer it even things I don't think it eats just to get it to try. Anybody please help! I've had it for over two weeks now with out it eating and don't know how much longer it will go.

 

[bdhough]

Had a customer buy one and die on him. It did nuke his tank after a couple of hours and all his fish died. His ammonia and nitrite levels were off the charts on my tests. I imagine if you catch it quick enough then you may be ok. It makes sense to me that an established tank with good live rock and filtration can withstand the toxins for a bit longer before it is overwhelmed, giving your time to catch it.

 

[scotts]

bd
It sounds to me that the fish did not nuke the tank, the tank was nuked to start with. Readings off the chart after a couple of hours? Also I don't think that the "toxins" would show up on amonia or nitrate tests.
Scott

 

[broncofish]

nope no test for the toxins.

 

[kimkissyfish]

HI,
I had a Mr Boxfish.. Dont worry anout it wiping out your tank... it will ONLY spray toxins IF IT IS BEING SEVERELY ATTACKED... just watch your tankmates...
Kim
BTW.. here is a spotted boxfish

 

[broncofish]

Originally posted by KimKissyFish
BTW.. here is a spotted boxfish
Looks more like a hovercraft boxfish(akaCamel Cowfish, Thornback, Thornbacked Boxfish, Helmet Cowfish, and Hovercraft Boxfish) , the spotted(aka Yellow Cubicus aka white spot aka black spot) is this puupy right here

 

[broncofish]

Mine is temporarily in the 46g bowfront in my living room, but will be in my 90g soon to be seahorse tank.

 

[bdhough]

All i remember is that his levels were off the chart. More than likely due to his 4 dead fish in the tank. My guess is that when the cow went the other fish started dying one by one. I don't know much more than that from the story he gave me. The dead cow fish was the one factor that changed in his tank to link the deaths.

 

[broncofish]

bdough that is quite possible, it is also possible that his tank is what nuked his cowfish. Usually the latter is the case, with boxfish not having the thick mucus slime coat they often will be the first fish to die when things go wrong.

 

[k-dawg]

Hey not to get too off topic but I did start the thread and it seems like there are so good experanced people with boxfish viewing this so I'll post this question that just got over looked again...
So far my box fish is still alive but I still have yet to get it to really eat. I eats nothing I put in the tank, and ocasionaly shows mild intrest in what hits the water but very quick goes back to ingoring it. Most I've seen it do was to peck at rocks, though I'm sure it's not really getting feed by any means from that, but it doesn't even do that anymore. I don't know what to do with it. I think I've mentioned before that it's the first time I've tried a boxfish, is there some thing I need to know about how they feed or is it just not taking to it. I've offered it every thing I could think to offer it even things I don't think it eats just to get it to try. Anybody please help! I've had it for over two weeks now with out it eating and don't know how much longer it will go.
Please answer if you can. Thanks

 

[broncofish]

My guess is that it has been eating.Pods off your rocks or algae in you tank. Try some frozen brine, formula one flake soaked in garlic, or algae sheets on a clip. If that fails feed it live shrimp fortified with phyto.