boy im stupid!`
- Thread starter califishdude
- Start date
tigerlover
Member
Originally posted by j21kickster
Tigerlover- what is wrong with you?
Sorry, its just what I can prove and what I can do, I can't just sit on the sidelines while people do such wrong things, thinking fish have no feelings is one of them!!! I'm not the kinda girl to just let things happen without a say-so in the matter, I'll stand up and tell you the truth and I'm not afraid to do so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
tigerlover
Member
Originally posted by slick
I'll stay out of this one thanks.
Wish I could stay out of this but I'm still a green (horse terms, only 13)
j21kickster
Active Member
Originally posted by Tigerlover
1. If fish have no emotions, then why do some die from stress?
2. If fish have no emotions, then why do we see them play and interact?
3. If fish have no emotions, then how can these aquatic creatures be the base of land life?
4. If fish have no emotions and no learning capacity, then how come I have a fish that from day to day does the same swimming pattern to get my attention to feed him?
5. If fish cannot feel pain and hurt, then why do my paired fish stop eating and die when their beloved mate dies.
OK-
1. Stress form their enviroment to their bodies- the dont get depression and get sad
2. All organisms act- no emotion needed there- playing is nature weather it is for physcial health, courting, or defending territory.
3. That is opinion- and not proven and while i believe in evolution this argument has no signifance- they are completly different animals
4. I doubt it is to get your attention- fish can recgonize food- the fact that he swims in the same pattern is not unlikely but many fish do this, i bet it does it regardless if you feed it
5.
thats cute but this is situational- seen it happen and nothing changed- most likely if one died it is something wrong with the tank and the second one is suffering from the same thing that the first one died from.
sea goblin
Member
Kickster, i must say that i am with you on this one..Take a vertibrate course, or a zoology course, and you will learn how organisms evolve and develope. Cold blooded animals regardless of size or environment will have their brain develope only to a certain point. They lack the abillity as to have a large enuff brain to have much more than what is programed into them. We learn, and have to adapet a great deal to our environment. A fish is programed with 3 primary things; eat, bread, and dont get eaten. Its basic, and its all they need to keep themselves as a species alive.
Sea Goblin
Sea Goblin
fishkiller
Active Member
Tigerlover- I'm w/ them. You should take a couple REAL biology classes perhaps. Say in college... I'm sure the majority of the people here are more informed and educated than yourself. NOW DON'T GET ALL "13 YR OLD GIRLY" and FREAK out on me. This is the truth. I'm just saying if you are going to take sush a strong position on this matter- your information should be correct and well established before you go welling them at everyone. Juse think before you FREAK.
tigerlover
Member
Kickster, I think I would know if a fish had the same disease another one did
I'll give you an example.
I used to breed bettas, I had a male (Ace) and a female(Riley)
Now bettas are kept in separate tanks, right? So then my female(in a larger tank at the time) got caught in a decoration and died. My male was right beside the tank and could see her.
Bettas have no emotions right, they are too mean and are just fish, right? Wrong, the male was eating heartily until he noticed that Riley wasn't there(couple hours afterward) then he stopped eating and about 2wks. later died
Another(this one's a different relationship)
I had a baby turtle(Mudslide) who I was caring for, he was in perfect health, until one day he just, died. Then his tankmates, all 3(1 8yr old, 1 6yr old, 1 2yr old) fell to the bottom of the tank and stopped eating(Mudslide was eating wonderfully before he died) I then had to let them go, and the oldest, Speedy, whom I've had since I was 4, looked back at me in deep sorrow, and then slowly swam away.
I am not claiming to know everything, but from experience, I KNOW that my animals, reptiles included, have feelings, and if you think differently, then why are you in this hobby, and why do you strive to create a "large and stress-free enviorment" if you want that for them, then 1. leave them in the ocean, and 2. Why bother, they are just stupid fish, right, so they don't know the difference between stress-free and not, right?
GO AHEAD, SQUASH THE POINTS, BUT YOU'LL NEVER SQUASH MY FIGHTING SPIRIT OR MY WONDERFUL MEMORIES OF THESE CREATURES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
btw, FISHKILLER, I think I'm just gonna ignore your post
I'll give you an example.
I used to breed bettas, I had a male (Ace) and a female(Riley)
Now bettas are kept in separate tanks, right?
So then my female(in a larger tank at the time) got caught in a decoration and died. My male was right beside the tank and could see her.Bettas have no emotions right, they are too mean and are just fish, right? Wrong, the male was eating heartily until he noticed that Riley wasn't there(couple hours afterward) then he stopped eating and about 2wks. later died
Another(this one's a different relationship)
I had a baby turtle(Mudslide) who I was caring for, he was in perfect health, until one day he just, died. Then his tankmates, all 3(1 8yr old, 1 6yr old, 1 2yr old) fell to the bottom of the tank and stopped eating(Mudslide was eating wonderfully before he died) I then had to let them go, and the oldest, Speedy, whom I've had since I was 4, looked back at me in deep sorrow, and then slowly swam away.
I am not claiming to know everything, but from experience, I KNOW that my animals, reptiles included, have feelings, and if you think differently, then why are you in this hobby, and why do you strive to create a "large and stress-free enviorment" if you want that for them, then 1. leave them in the ocean, and 2. Why bother, they are just stupid fish, right, so they don't know the difference between stress-free and not, right?
GO AHEAD, SQUASH THE POINTS, BUT YOU'LL NEVER SQUASH MY FIGHTING SPIRIT OR MY WONDERFUL MEMORIES OF THESE CREATURES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
btw, FISHKILLER, I think I'm just gonna ignore your post
tigerlover
Member
Originally posted by j21kickster
OK-
4. I doubt it is to get your attention- fish can recgonize food- the fact that he swims in the same pattern is not unlikely but many fish do this, i bet it does it regardless if you feed it
No, it doesn't do this regardless, only when I walk by someone else could and no rection, I could look over from the couch and......no reaction
You don't know my fish, just give yours a chance, they'll prove this to you if I can't.
IK YOU CAN HONESTLY LOOK AT ONE OF YOUR FISH AND SAY IT HAS NO PERSONALITY OR MIND OF ITS OWN, THEN YOU MUST BE BLIND, I'VE HEARD MANY SAY THAT THEIR FISH ARE "LITTLE CHARACTERS" WHY DO YOU NOT BACK THE FACTS IF YOU THINK THIS????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
j21kickster
Active Member
lol- nevermind- sorry i brought it up
fulcrum
Member
Regardless of whether or not fish have emotions, we human beings do. It should not be easy to kill anything.
I have had to euthanize fish that were clearly dying. I still have my maroon clown in a ziploc bag in the freezer because I feel so bad about killing him. (I know its a little creepy...I want to take him to the ocean, and I keep forgetting)
To sum this thread up, Califish may or may not have done the right thing by killing the damsel, we'll never know. Either way, we all agree there are nicer ways to euthanize fish.
Since none of us know for sure whether or not fish have emotions, or sense pain, why dont we give them the benefit of the doubt. Thoughtful euthanasia is not much harder than flushing or throwing in a puddle outside.
And who knows, maybe the darkest corners of hell are reserved for those who abuse animals. Why toy with the possibilties?
I have had to euthanize fish that were clearly dying. I still have my maroon clown in a ziploc bag in the freezer because I feel so bad about killing him. (I know its a little creepy...I want to take him to the ocean, and I keep forgetting)
To sum this thread up, Califish may or may not have done the right thing by killing the damsel, we'll never know. Either way, we all agree there are nicer ways to euthanize fish.
Since none of us know for sure whether or not fish have emotions, or sense pain, why dont we give them the benefit of the doubt. Thoughtful euthanasia is not much harder than flushing or throwing in a puddle outside.
And who knows, maybe the darkest corners of hell are reserved for those who abuse animals. Why toy with the possibilties?
fulcrum
Member
Dude, are you bagging on a 13 year old girl for believing that her pets have emotions? Thats pretty cold.
Sure, she may not have all the scientific facts, but she seems to be capable of caring for her animals, which is more than I can say for most 13 year olds (and even a few 30 year olds on this board).
The point is moot. Nobody knows for sure. There is scientific evidence to support fishkiller's point. There is no way to prove it for certain.
I personally wouldn't want to meet a 13 year old girl that didn't think animals have emotions and souls.
On the other hand, if I had a 13 year old daugther that talked to me like that and rolled her eyes, I would make CERTAIN she learned that you dont talk to adults in that manner, and that you can disagree with someone, while showing them respect.
Sure, she may not have all the scientific facts, but she seems to be capable of caring for her animals, which is more than I can say for most 13 year olds (and even a few 30 year olds on this board).
The point is moot. Nobody knows for sure. There is scientific evidence to support fishkiller's point. There is no way to prove it for certain.
I personally wouldn't want to meet a 13 year old girl that didn't think animals have emotions and souls.
On the other hand, if I had a 13 year old daugther that talked to me like that and rolled her eyes, I would make CERTAIN she learned that you dont talk to adults in that manner, and that you can disagree with someone, while showing them respect.
R
rogeta
Guest
I must say that while I don't always agree wit what J21kickster has to say, I fully back him on this one (cept for believing in evolution). And to add he was nohting but curtious
