Brand new-need help choosing products

[phishy]

Hello everyone...I have been reading this great message board for the last week or so (as well as reading everything else I can get my hands on). I am BRAND NEW to this hobby, but very excited to start (understanding that I must have patience and not jump in too quickly).
Here is where I could use some help. I am going back and forth between a 55 & 75 Gal. FOWLRLS (I am still getting used to all the acronyms you guys use ), but for the sake of discussion let's assume it will be 75 Gal. I went to a pretty reputable LFS this morning and talked to the sales person for a long while. I would like to bounce the set up she suggested to me off all of you.
-Emperor 400 biowheel filter (was told it was better b/c it included the carbon pad)
-Aqua Metic Turbofloater 1000 protein skimmer (was told it is the "only one I should even consider",)
-1.5 inches of sand (90% Aragonite, 10% LS) (was told I shouldn't use the southdown from Home Depot)
-No Powerheads (was told filter and skimmer provide enough movement and powerheads are ugly)
-All-Glass tank
-All-Glass "Modern Series" cabinet (I really like this, but it is expensive)
My three major issues are:
1) Cost (I think this is everyone's, but I don't want to buy extras that I don't need or could get for less in a different product)
2) Noise, my wife is pretty noise sensitive and is concerned the constant noise of the filter, water and skimmer may be loud enough to annoy her.
3) How much it sticks out from the wall (this is the only reason I am considering a 55 Gal.). The space we have for the tank is next to an ******** door, which could hit the tank if the stand sticks out more than 25 inches from the wall.
Please give me all the feedback you can think of. I am excited to get started, but want to do as much research as possible.
Thanks in advance...

 

[bbuck_camelback]

The emperor 400 is a fairly decent filter for the cost, I have one but I don`t use the bio wheels or any carbon pads. It is mainly for water movement and for the occasional phosphate sponge. As for not using powerheads I would use them there are dead spots in the tank where the skimmer and filter won`t reach. You need powerheads for good tank circulation imo. A remora pro skimmer would work good for a 75, they cost about $200 though, well worth the price if you ask me. Both the emperor filter and remora skimmers are fairly quiet when they get broke in. I have never heard anything bad about southdown except that it doesn`t look that great and it sometimes makes the tank cloudy. You would probably want more than a 1.5 inch sandbed, 3.5-5 inches is the norm for a Deep Sand Bed. Personally I prefer the glass tanks the acrylic tanks scratch really easy, plus acrylic costs a bit more.

 

[ajroc31]

I would go with something with a sump. I think that power filters should not be used with SW, or be limited to smaller tanks. I had an emperor 400, and that thing was covered with salt after 2 weeks.
IMHO, I would not put a tank in a place where there is even a remote chance that something can hit it.
Calvindo asked so really good questions, so if you want to check all his posts you will learn quickly what works and what does not.

 

[shanev]

If your concerned with how close it can get to the wall go for a drilled tank, you can almost make it touch the wall.

 

[cindyski]

Phishy,
i am also new to the s/w hobby (but had f/w) and this board. you WILL be told, (and do it!) get the book "The Conscientious Marine Aquariest by Robert M Fenner) i got mine from this site and it arrived yesterday & i cant put it down! There is a wealth of information in this book!!!
anyway i am setting up a 125 acrylic. the con's they scratch easy (but i did scratch an all glass one once too during a cleaning) the pro's they wont leak, they are lighter & for the most part more clear. mine is going to be drilled cuz it is going to set in the middle of a room, but from what i have read and heard, drilled tanks are better anyway cosmetically, everything is more contained rather than having hang off stuff (as i previously had)
imo, & what i have heard, the larger the tank the easier to maintain so if you can go with bigger then do so, if not a minimum of 55 is recommended in EVERYTHING i read. not that smaller wont work, i think they are just harder to maintain. (lots of successful smaller tanks on this board)
as far as specific names and such of products, i would rather have someone else answer that
as far as cost if your going to do this, it is gonna cost ya, dont forget you are going to have to consider lighting especially if you ever plan to add corals. there is a DIY forum on here that might help you out some (i am not good with that stuff) also ReefNut has some NICE diagrams if you check his threads.
like i said, i am new too, this board has been great helping me make decisions. do it right the first time or you will end up doing it over again and spending even more $$$$
good luck!!!

 

[jillian ayers]

As far as acrylic and glass tanks go, I always like to go with glass because algae seems to be so hard to get off the sides of acrylic tanks. See, acyrlic breaks under the magnet that is used to remove algae relatively easily and requires some hard-core scrubbing with a regular algae brush, which I don't like. Don't know if that affects you in any way, but just thought it might help.

 

[gatorcsm]

I agree that a sump is the way to go. You can put a skimmer, heater, etc down there. You don't have to worry about the level in the display portion, as level remains constant. You just have to keep an eye on the level in the sump.
If you decide to go with a sump, get a euro-reef. They're definitely worth the money, and they should last you a long time. A euro-reef is prob closer to a skimmer that you can say "don't consider any other one" about. They are the mercedes of skimmers.
Biowheel filters are a nuisance on a SW tank. I have/had one on my 20 and 10 gallon tanks. I just took out the wheel since it was making a mess. It causes a TON of salt creep.
Another consideration is to use no filter and good flow in the tank by use of powerheads. It would be useful to have a skimmer hooked up however, they remove organics and do a great job of aerating the water.
I don't believe there is anything wrong with using southdown.. IT IS aragonite as far as I understand. The only reason I could imagine her saying that, was to get you to buy the sand from her.
I think both of those tanks are only 18" from back to front... 25" shouldn't be an issue.
2" would probably be a good shallow sand bed. Maybe even 2.5"
Obviously, if you want a DSB (deep sand bed) you will want to go = or deeper than 4" But don't do this unless you understand the DSB concept, their risks, and management. They have advantages and disadvantages. A search here should provide adequate insight if interested.
1.5" you might find too thin since it easily gets worn down to bare substrate if it gets moved around at all...
YOU NEED more flow than just the one filter and skimmer... You will either need closed loops or powerheads. Powerheads are easiest until you know how the flow reacts to different setups... Closed loops can then be used, but require some planning to get it right. 20x the tank's volume in flow per hour would be a good goal.
Be ready to switch to reef.. It seems a lot of people that do FOWLRs end up adding the corals... It just seems like a decently natural progression. Just need lights once you have the rock to place the coral on..
Hope this helps...
Gator

 

[cindyski]

my wet/dry is acrylic and i have had it for years, might be a stupid question, but why didnt i ever get any algae build up in that?

 

[beth]

Are you going to have a live sand? A deep sand bed? Live rock with fish and maybe some simple corals?
There are some decent skimmers out there, and very skinny ones too, that hang on the back of the tank.
I basically have a natural system. My filters are the sand bed and the live rock. Has worked great for me and has been the easiest tank I have ever maintained.

 

[cindyski]

Beth,
i am curious if you have any clams in your tank
thanks

 

[phishy]

I like the idea of putting everything below the tank, but have heard sumps are noisy. Is this true?

 

[wwfstyle]

sumps can be noisey if you just throw ur pumps in there. In my 10g sump I have 2 pumps (return, skimmer), heater, and my drip system. On my pumps I have those suction things on the bottom, and on my heater too. The noisiest thing is my over-flow box. Last nite I was trying to figure out how I could fix that problem and I GOT IT . I went to the store and bought a large 1" thick sponge (the kind you use in the kitchen to wash dishes). I cut it to a snug fit. You know what this morning my sponge isn't even wet and I cann't tell its even going . So you can make ur sumps quiet if you just put ur mind to it. Hope this helps Rick

 

[cool clown]

I had two emperor 400's on my 80 gallon and they worked great I took them off when I got my protein skimmer(It moves a lot more water). I had no salt creap or the mess they were easy to take care of. Hey gator can you explain the DSB concept? This is the first time I have heard of that. I know a DSB help remove more nitrates and you need something to stir the sand so the bottom levels don't die off but what else am I missing?

 

[michaeltx]

Emperor 400 biowheel filter(works basically as a protien skimmer-plus a lot cheaper than sumps!)
sorry but they are 2 completely differnt things the skimmer removes disolved organics for the water column (think green/brown slugde) that a biowheel will never be able to remove from the water.
dont mean to step on toes though LOL
Mike

 

[michaeltx]

right but its just mechanical. the skimmers actually pull stuff out of the water that you can pour down the drain. the emporer doent do that it may trap some of it in the filter pads but nothing compared to a skimmer. the emporer actually leaves it in the water column. I never ran a skimmer till recently and after I started there is a dramatic change in water clarity and quality.
Mike

 

[michaeltx]

kewl sounds like a plan to see..
BTW thats why I didnt get one at first I didnt think I would need something that cost so much LOL
Mike

 

[cool clown]

I run both a 400 and a skimmer the skimmer removes tons more and my water is a lot clearer. I had to save up for a while to but they are worth it. The first week I ran my skimmer I could not belive how much sludge it pulled out.

 

[phishy]

First, I would like to thank everyone for their input.
I went to another LFS today and they really tried to push a canister filter that I could put under my tank rather than the Emporer 400. He explained it would save space behind my tank (which doesn't make sense because I will still have the protien skimmer) and they are a lot quieter.
I just wanted to throw this out there and see what ya'll think.
Thanks again...

 

[michaeltx]

canister filters do what they are designed to do but only if the maintance is kept up on them. they can turn into nitrate factorys quickly if they arent maintian properly.
noise wise not sure but I would figure they are about the same but being under the tank the it would be muffled so
Mike

 

[steelchromis]

Phishy, where exactly are you in Upstate NY. If you are in the Rochester, NY area, check out Caribbean Forest, they're awesome.