Breaking the rules?

[beth]

It would be appreciated if the flames would quit.
lopeyc, bought an already setup tank that, yes, is overstocked and mishandled. That being the case, it seems to me that those who may know more about his hobby might be a little more helpful than hurtful.
Take the elitest attitudes to -- or elsewhere, we're here to help each other out, not flame a new hobbyist.

 

[oo bubbagump oo]

Thanks Beth. I feel less masculine now.
My PBT is doing fine. Like I said, I know the tank is small. I feed him live brine, and Nori soaked in Garlic. He really loves the brine, kind of a "thrill of the chase" thing if you ask me. He is very active and swims around and through every crevice as if he was trying out for the olympics.
As stated earlier, I have no plans of adding any other fish. This is HIS tank. Also, if this will make ya'll feel better, it was my birthday last week and my uncle wants to take me tank shopping. He wants to get me something like a 50g but I am really pushing a 135g. Pray for the best, or pray for the Tang... whatever floats your pickle.
Justin

 

[beth]

You could tell him that a 135 will cover xmas, and next yr's BD as well....or even longer..........

 

[terminus est]

I wasnt flaming Lopy, if you noticed i kinda defended him. But there is nothing elitist about telling the truth to an experienced member of the board who knows better. Its all good now though.

 

[wrassecal]

Originally posted by lopeyc
In the transition, he kept 3 cheap chromiis I didn't want, leaving nine. My question is, should I replace them with other fish (I want to!) or should I let the population shrink by attrition?
Also, do people generally leave their protein skimmers on all the time? Or just periodically?
IMO - No you should not replace them. I think you realize that there are too many fish in there by your own research. The "let the population shrink by attrition" question sounds like you realize you are probably going to lose some of the nine remaining fish. All that being said, you got the tank and the fish as a package. Do the best you can by them and see if you can keep them healthy. Welcome to the board and the hobby. You are going to love it!
I run my protein skimmer 24/7 and I think with that kind of bioload you need to also.
Bubba - you posted no advice for lopeyc and his/her situation. You just came onto the thread and dropped what you knew would be a bombshell concerning your own tank. Also, he can't pick a "king" he's already got the fish and is trying to do his best by them.

 

[bigmac]

Originally posted by oO BubbaGump Oo
Well, I guess you guys are the experts!
Not experts, not idiots, just common sense

 

[oo bubbagump oo]

My uncle, who has no experience with this hobby, has absolutely NO idea how much room fish need. He is a pretty smart man, but should I say he has no common sense? Maybe I should say the same about my mother. My girlfriend too, and quite a few of my friends! If they don't have it, then the "sense" you are talking about surely must not be common.
My point, there is alot more than "common sense" involved with this hobby, stuff like science and biology. Even chemistry I guess. But I sure am with you. Some people think they are experts, and I think some are idiots. I really have alot to learn and am quite enthusiastic about learning more and more everyday. (Eww, I hate sounding like a politician!)
Thanks. Justin

 

[lopeyc]

Got everybody riled up...

Checking: My understanding of the inch per gallon rule is 1" per 2 gallons. That true?
If this is true, I'm actually currently within reason, as most of my fish are one-inchers. Even counting my round Tang at twice the inches, I get about 18-20" of fish for about 40 gallons.
However: Do I subtract the space taken up by my live rock from the gallons. In other words, is it the tank size or the actual water.
Barring some big new revelations, here's what I've decided to:
-- Keep all the fish but add no more. As long as the system is stable and the fish seem healthy, I'm going to trust the guy who built the reef, because ... well, I like and trust him!
-- Make a plan for a larger tank (which is a bit complicated because I may be moving a few miles in the next two years), so that I can accommodate their growth.
Thanks again for all the advice.

 

[wamp]

"Inch" per gallon rule is very misleading. Diffrent fish have difrent eating habbits. The more they eat, the more waste they produce, the more waste they produce, the more it tends to build up.
I would never suggest someone go by that rule. It is a general rule that is very misleading.
In a 40 gallon tank, I would only have about 4 small fish. No Tangs, or angels or any other fish with a special needs diet.

 

[jlem]

Originally posted by Beth
It would be appreciated if the flames would quit.
lopeyc, bought an already setup tank that, yes, is overstocked and mishandled. That being the case, it seems to me that those who may know more about his hobby might be a little more helpful than hurtful.
Take the elitest attitudes to -- or elsewhere, we're here to help each other out, not flame a new hobbyist.

Would you suggest we just let people knowingly post terrible advice and say nothing? I guess you would rather us be buddies then try and save a few fish or save a fello hobbiest some money by letting them know the right way to do things. -- is no different what so ever than this board accept maybe people care more about the hooby then the feeligs of people who post such horrid advice as a tang in a 20 gallon. You give out more criticism then anybody else on this board, ecspecialy when you are in the disease forum. would you let somebody give the advise to do a freshwater dip for Ich and say nothing? You would be on that person like white on rice and you would slam them if they new better. Nobody flamed the starter of this thread. People have given Lopeyc great advice in the kindest way as he/she is entitled to. We just chose not to ignore the fact that Bubba gave terrible advice

 

[wrassecal]

lopeyc - Wamp is correct, you really can't use the inch per gallon rule..too many variables. I think your plan is good considering you already have the fish. You'll probably get so addicted to the hobby that your concern for your fish will outweigh any sanity and reason concerning money and before you know it you'll have a 135 gal tank Wait a minute, that's my story

 

[lopeyc]

I'm already sucked in and want a second tank. Last night I discovered an old friend of mine is into this too and is nurturing a new 90-gallon tank. This was a bit of a wakeup call, because when he walked me through what things cost individually -- i.e., live rock -- I came to realize how much money had been sunk into my beautiful tank, and how hard it would be to re-create from scratch in a tank three times as big! Even with some rock, some fish and a few inverts and an anemone, his tank looked kinda like a moonscape...

 

[beth]

jlem, ok...

 

[oo bubbagump oo]

jlem: Please listen to me brother. I told him that my tank is only twenty gallons and I only had ONE fish, a Tang.
His tank is twice the size as mine, but he has TEN times more fish than I do. The advice is pretty self explanitory. It's very disrespectful to:
1) Quote an admin.
2) Flame me.
3) Call my advice horrible.
You got issues brother. (I once got my account deleted by quoting an admin... lol!)

 

[terminus est]

You are defending yourself from an untenable position so stop. The fact that you have a Powder blue, or any other tang for that matter, in a 20 gallon tank is straight up wrong in any shape and form and listing this to a new guy as advice is horrible and irreprehensible. Thats why we were on your case. If you do not have good advice do not post anything at all because some new guy, not knowing any better might do the same thing you did.

 

[phil1964]

BubbaGump

 

[beth]

Bubba you should find another home for your tang but it is up to you to keep what you have or not. I am sure you have heard already all the reasons why. However, please don't suggest to others here to emulate your set up. No, you didn’t directly do that, but by describing your set up with the PBT the “suggestion” is there; even if unwittingly. While it is up to you to what you want with your 20gal tank and your PBT, your setup should not be something that new, unknowledgeable hobbyists be encouraged to follow. On the other hand, I can’t imagine that sarcastic remarks about hobbyist doing something wrong is going to help them change their minds.
When such happens, I can only think that the more knowledgeable individual is more interested in pointing out bad judgment, rather than attempting to help or advise. On the other hand, hobbyists who continue to make the same mistakes, even after being advised over and over of wrong-doing, are likely to get some heat. Just keep in mind that when the flames start up, even when someone is WRONG, that is a reflection on you and this BB. Someone new to the forums may see your sarcastic or nasty remarks to someone else, and not know the history, thus come to the conclusion that this place is unfriendly. Just keep it in mind that when you speak here, it is public speaking, not a private conversation.
Also, bubba, its not against the rules to quote a mod per say.

 

[beth]

Originally posted by jlem
You give out more criticism then anybody else on this board, ecspecialy when you are in the disease forum. would you let somebody give the advise to do a freshwater dip for Ich and say nothing? You would be on that person like white on rice and you would slam them if they new better.
I must disagree, jliem. I doubt if I give out more criticism then anyone else here. I spend a lot of time here, and it is not because I enjoy flaming. I don't ever recall flaming anyone for doing a FW dip. I do point out, however, when fellow hobbyist are not treating a disease correctly in no uncertain terms, then I tell them what they need to do. People coming to the Disease Forum don’t have time to waste or pussy-foot around. They need help right away. On the spot. Nothing wishy-washy. And that often means being sure that they understand that what they did do or are doing is incorrect and give them the right advise. They come to that forum to get the advise frequently knowing already that what they did is incorrect, wrong and made things worse.
Unlike the other forums, people coming to the Disease Forum are in crisis and are seeking help from the mods there.
Lets just stay on target with this thread.

 

[oo bubbagump oo]

Yawn, good morning guys. I never suggested a tang, I just commented on how small my tank was FOR the tang.
He already has a Tang, and eight other fish. I'm hung over, leave me alone. Huh, waaa!
Justin

 

[lopeyc]

Last night, after reading this thread, I had a nightmare that all my fish -- and a lot more besides -- were dying because I'd put them in fresh, chlorinated water. I think I'll try to stay away from this board, lest my peaceful new hobby turn into another source of angst and anxiety!
Peace!