Built in over flow siphon??

rostato

rostato

Member

That is my over flow and return. I have one of each on each side of the tank. The white 90 elbow is the overflow and the bulkhead is the return.
Anyway I cannot get the water level right in my tank because the return with back siphon it all out. What do you guys and gals suggest to make a siphon break?
I have two of these on the way of these on the way...

What would you do to make a siphon break? A 90 degree angle and then these? You can see where the first owner of the tank had his water line. I just can't get it without worrying about flooding my house.
 
salty blues

salty blues

Active Member
Originally Posted by rostato
http:///forum/post/2677929

That is my over flow and return. I have one of each on each side of the tank. The white 90 elbow is the overflow and the bulkhead is the return.
Anyway I cannot get the water level right in my tank because the return with back siphon it all out. What do you guys and gals suggest to make a siphon break?
I have two of these on the way of these on the way...

What would you do to make a siphon break? A 90 degree angle and then these? You can see where the first owner of the tank had his water line. I just can't get it without worrying about flooding my house.
It looks to me that if you turn the pvc elbow straight up, it would raise the level about where you want it. Water level in a tank will always be about the same as the highest point at which it can drain depending more or less on your return pump rating.
As for the back siphon issue, you can use a check valve on your return line. Some folks also drill a very small hole in the return pipe just above the level of the return outlet(s) to serve as a siphon break incase/when the check valve fails.
 
rostato

rostato

Member
Originally Posted by salty blues
http:///forum/post/2677971
It looks to me that if you turn the pvc elbow straight up, it would raise the level about where you want it. Water level in a tank will always be about the same as the highest point at which it can drain depending more or less on your return pump rating.
As for the back siphon issue, you can use a check valve on your return line. Some folks also drill a very small hole in the return pipe just above the level of the return outlet(s) to serve as a siphon break incase/when the check valve fails.
Yeah that would raise the water level while the pum is on. I know that. My problem is the the return was drilled at the same height as the overflow, so the higher I allow the water to get the more will siphon back into the sump.
I really don't want to rely on a check valve. There has to be a way to plumb it in the tank to make a siphon break or something. I need some creative thinking here, but I am fresh out of ideas...
 
rostato

rostato

Member
Originally Posted by tropills
http:///forum/post/2678210
like salty said drill a small hole close to the surface of the water in both returns.

here is the problem there is my water line

I would have to drill a hole on top and that would make a mess!
 
salty blues

salty blues

Active Member
Originally Posted by rostato
http:///forum/post/2677987
Yeah that would raise the water level while the pum is on. I know that. My problem is the the return was drilled at the same height as the overflow, so the higher I allow the water to get the more will siphon back into the sump.
I really don't want to rely on a check valve. There has to be a way to plumb it in the tank to make a siphon break or something. I need some creative thinking here, but I am fresh out of ideas...
Most every set-up will typically have a higher level when the pump is running. Since they are at the same level, perhaps those two bulkheads/holes were originally intended to be dual returns. You could either use them as such with a hang-on-tank overflow box for your drain or mount an inside tank overflow box on the two holes and use that for your drain with an over the rim type set up for your return.
 
rostato

rostato

Member
Originally Posted by salty blues
http:///forum/post/2678289
Most every set-up will typically have a higher level when the pump is running. Since they are at the same level, perhaps those two bulkheads/holes were originally intended to be dual returns. You could either use them as such with a hang-on-tank overflow box for your drain or mount an inside tank overflow box on the two holes and use that for your drain with an over the rim type set up for your return.
Hmm, there is the same set up on the other side of the tank. I just bought it from someone who had it running fine, I just need to figure out how they did it...
 
natclanwy

natclanwy

Active Member
The only way I can see to stop this from back siphoning is to use an elbow on the outside of the tank pointing up then bring the plumbing above the tank and then two elbows to bring it down again and attach your hose here or hard plumb it back to the sump. Then drill a siphon break in the pipe that is vertical coming off the first 90 above the water level of the tank and use a piece of airline tubing to route the flow through the siphon break to the tank. Seal around the airline tubing with super glue or silicone. Here is a quick drawing the little squiggly line at the top is the airline tubing. I use a similar setup on my tank but my return is plumbed over the side instead of through a bulkhead only 2 elbows instead of 3. Definetly test this before you rely on it you may need to add a second airline tubing to help break the syphon or as a backup in case something clogs the first. Might need to support the "U" as it will put some added stress on your tank and bulkhead.
 
rostato

rostato

Member
Originally Posted by natclanwy
http:///forum/post/2678508
The only way I can see to stop this from back siphoning is to use an elbow on the outside of the tank pointing up then bring the plumbing above the tank and then two elbows to bring it down again and attach your hose here or hard plumb it back to the sump. Then drill a siphon break in the pipe that is vertical coming off the first 90 above the water level of the tank and use a piece of airline tubing to route the flow through the siphon break to the tank. Seal around the airline tubing with super glue or silicone. Here is a quick drawing the little squiggly line at the top is the airline tubing. I use a similar setup on my tank but my return is plumbed over the side instead of through a bulkhead only 2 elbows instead of 3. Definetly test this before you rely on it you may need to add a second airline tubing to help break the syphon or as a backup in case something clogs the first. Might need to support the "U" as it will put some added stress on your tank and bulkhead.
Goog idea. I may try that
I am waiting for some more hardware to come in.
 
rostato

rostato

Member
what about just drilling a hole on a fitting in the tank with airline tubing coming out of it cliped to the side of the tank so it just sprays back into the tank?
 
loopy101

loopy101

Member
then i see two choices that i can think of off the top of my head one would be to seal off the bulk head and run the intake over the sides of the tank.havent thought that one through to much so dont know of any side effects that could happen.... that or use his idea and build a support bracket to hold the U up in the air. or go to a outdoor store that sells bi-pods...they are adjustable for height and would support the extra weight so it wouldnt be pulling on the tank...
 
rostato

rostato

Member
This is what I ended up doing. It looks like ----, but it works. I think I will do that untill my locklines get here and I will route then like that. They are black so it will not look as bad...
 
natclanwy

natclanwy

Active Member
Did you drill a syphon break in your setup it looks like it is still draining down to almost the same level.
As far as my idea If you were to hardline the plumbing down to the sump you should be able to attatch the plumbing to your stand somewhere to support the weight or at least hardline it to a place where you can then use a hose, I was just concerned about hanging a hose off of three 90's. You could also add another elbow pointing to the right so that the "U" assemble stays close to the bulkhead and reducing the stress on the tank and bulkhead. Now that I think about if you do it this way you could rig something to sit under the plumbing and on the top edge of the tank to support the plumbing can't think of what right of the top of my head but maybe someone else here will have an idea.
 
rostato

rostato

Member
Originally Posted by natclanwy
http:///forum/post/2679815
Did you drill a syphon break in your setup it looks like it is still draining down to almost the same level.
As far as my idea If you were to hardline the plumbing down to the sump you should be able to attatch the plumbing to your stand somewhere to support the weight or at least hardline it to a place where you can then use a hose, I was just concerned about hanging a hose off of three 90's. You could also add another elbow pointing to the right so that the "U" assemble stays close to the bulkhead and reducing the stress on the tank and bulkhead. Now that I think about if you do it this way you could rig something to sit under the plumbing and on the top edge of the tank to support the plumbing can't think of what right of the top of my head but maybe someone else here will have an idea.
I am going to the fish store this weekend and going to add 12 in of loc-line to the ones I have orders so I can arch it up out of the water and then drill a hole.
I did not drill a hole in this one. I just wanted to get it working well enough to start the tank.
 
kellenr

kellenr

Member
Why don't you just turn that first elbow clockwise about 45* so its pointed straight up. This will sit right at the waterline you desired and act as a 'skimmer type overflow'. You can take all that extra junk off. Turn that first "Return" elbow straight down, this way water will pump back and shoot straight down into the tank.
See my pic I attached to help visualize what I'm talking about.
EDIT: I just re-read the post and got the two mixed up in the picture. Do that to whichever one is the 'overflow' (point straight up). And the return is to be pointed 'straight down'.
 
rostato

rostato

Member
Originally Posted by KellenR
http:///forum/post/2680670
EDIT: I just re-read the post and got the two mixed up in the picture. Do that to whichever one is the 'overflow' (point straight up). And the return is to be pointed 'straight down'.
Yeah but if I do that it will overflow my sump
 
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