Bunch of questions

gooch

gooch

Member
I am pretty new to this hobby. I have recently started lurking around here and reading up as much as I can. My brother in law gave me his old 75 gallon bow front tank and stand and I have taken it upon myself to get it up and running as a FOWLR system. As I am accumulating the supplies and undertaking projects a few glaring problems have popped up. 1. I was given an old 30 gallon acrylic (at least I think it's acrylic, it is a plastic like material) wet/dry. I want to convert it to a sump with refugium instead. I saw a few DIY videos and they involved people attaching acrylic baffles to glass tanks with silicone. So, I picked up some silicone from Lowes but I read on here that silicone will not bond with acrylic!? So, if that is in fact the case, what do I need to use to create baffles in this box?
2. What is the most reasonably priced way to add sand to this tank? I heard of using playbox sand and I looked at Home Depot/Lowes and I just didnt know if their sand was "safe" to use in that manner. Would getting sand like that and adding in one back of live sand "seed" it eventually to make it all live?
3. I inherited a 700 gph pump to use in the sump as either the return pump, or the pump for the skimmer. What is the recommended size pump I should use given the size of the sump and the display to use as the return? Does it matter if the more powerful pump is hooked to the skimmer? I could produce the brand of the skimmer if neccesary.
4. DIY lighting. Is there a way to save costs on decent lighting if you purchase the ballasts and mountings from electrical wholesalers instead of using specifically designed aquarium lights? If the bulb itself is a full spectrum bulb is there a difference?
5. How do I know if my local water is not good enough for use with a FOWLR system, or if I would like to incorporate a few corals. I have a local water quality report
Copper 0.34
nitrate 0.556
chlorine 0.84
I assume are the big three and those are PPM figures. I am considering purchasing a RO/DI system but would just as well save the dough if my water quality is sufficient the way it is.
6. Cleaning everything. All the gear that was given to me was stored in my brother-in-law's basement and is pretty grimey. It needs a big cleaning and in doing that a few questions pop up to me.
a) Using hose water to clean them, is that an issue?
b) Can I use soap? I heard Vinegar can be used, but to be able to soap up these things, especially the tank itself would make it a lot easier.
7. Stand going on a hardwood floor. When putting the stand on the floor do I need a rubber mat or something going down over the flooring?
I appreciate any help I can get on these questions. I'd like to add that although I know that it has been mentioned that this is a very expensive hobby and one should be prepared to open up the wallet, I would like options that are of the more economical variety. I have resigned myself to be fairly patient when it comes to introducing life into the tank and am willing to slowly bring this along before that happens. I have a wife who already is fairly disgruntled about the idea of the expenditures of this so any news where I can save a buck can help out a lot.
Thank you.
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member

Originally Posted by Gooch
http:///forum/post/2928744
I am pretty new to this hobby. I have recently started lurking around here and reading up as much as I can. My brother in law gave me his old 75 gallon bow front tank and stand and I have taken it upon myself to get it up and running as a FOWLR system. As I am accumulating the supplies and undertaking projects a few glaring problems have popped up.
YAY! Welcome to the hobby.
1. I was given an old 30 gallon acrylic (at least I think it's acrylic, it is a plastic like material) wet/dry. I want to convert it to a sump with refugium instead. I saw a few DIY videos and they involved people attaching acrylic baffles to glass tanks with silicone. So, I picked up some silicone from Lowes but I read on here that silicone will not bond with acrylic!? So, if that is in fact the case, what do I need to use to create baffles in this box?
Use Weld On #16, it's like silicone, but made specifically for acrylic. You actually CAN use silicone for glass/acrylic baffles, but not for building aquariums or sumps. It doesn't have the strength to do that, but if you want to just hold the baffle in place, this is still an option. When buying silicone, make sure it does NOT say mold and mildew resistant.
2. What is the most reasonably priced way to add sand to this tank? I heard of using playbox sand and I looked at Home Depot/Lowes and I just didnt know if their sand was "safe" to use in that manner. Would getting sand like that and adding in one back of live sand "seed" it eventually to make it all live?
There are Three alternatives: 1. sand from the beach, 2. Southdown, 3. Kolorscape white. Good luck finding southdown or kolorscape white, lol. They have been out of production for years! Sand from the beach is another issue all together, in which you should do some research.
3. I inherited a 700 gph pump to use in the sump as either the return pump, or the pump for the skimmer. What is the recommended size pump I should use given the size of the sump and the display to use as the return? Does it matter if the more powerful pump is hooked to the skimmer? I could produce the brand of the skimmer if neccesary.
A 700gph pump would be just fine on a 75g, I think. Yes, there is some head loss, but you don't want that much turnover through your sump. What is the brand of your skimmer? It depends on if it is recirculating or venturi or beckett style...
4. DIY lighting. Is there a way to save costs on decent lighting if you purchase the ballasts and mountings from electrical wholesalers instead of using specifically designed aquarium lights? If the bulb itself is a full spectrum bulb is there a difference?
Yup, this is called a retrofit kit. You can find them online, and for the most part, you are not going to find electrical parts for saltwater reef lighting at electronic warehouses. VHO bulbs are great, I don't like power compacts too much.
5. How do I know if my local water is not good enough for use with a FOWLR system, or if I would like to incorporate a few corals. I have a local water quality report
Copper 0.34nitrate 0.556
chlorine 0.84
I assume are the big three and those are PPM figures. I am considering purchasing a RO/DI system but would just as well save the dough if my water quality is sufficient the way it is.
You should go ahead and buy a RO/DI system to save yourself a lot of pain and heartache. You need to also test Nitrate and Phosphate. I would just go ahead and get the unit. It's well worth it.
6. Cleaning everything. All the gear that was given to me was stored in my brother-in-law's basement and is pretty grimey. It needs a big cleaning and in doing that a few questions pop up to me.
a) Using hose water to clean them, is that an issue?
b) Can I use soap? I heard Vinegar can be used, but to be able to soap up these things, especially the tank itself would make it a lot easier.
A: nope, not an issue at all.
B: Do not wash with soap, but you can use vinegar. Vinegar is an acid that eats up calcium and calcium deposits.
7. Stand going on a hardwood floor. When putting the stand on the floor do I need a rubber mat or something going down over the flooring?
I guess you could put down a rubber mat or something, it wouldn't hurt. Or, you can buy some of those felt tabs and lace your stand bottom with it.
Thank you.
I hope this helps.
 
gooch

gooch

Member
Use Weld On #16, it's like silicone, but made specifically for acrylic. You actually CAN use silicone for glass/acrylic baffles, but not for building aquariums or sumps. It doesn't have the strength to do that, but if you want to just hold the baffle in place, this is still an option. When buying silicone, make sure it does NOT say mold and mildew resistant.
I just checked my silicone and noticed on the top it said Silicone #2 which from a previous thread I learned is the bad silicone. What is this "Weld On #16"? Where can I find it?
There are Three alternatives: 1. sand from the beach, 2. Southdown, 3. Kolorscape white. Good luck finding southdown or kolorscape white, lol. They have been out of production for years! Sand from the beach is another issue all together, in which you should do some research.
Living in CT and it being the winter I don't really know a feasible way to obtain beach sand. Even if I could though I don't know if it would really look good. The sand here is very brown... more than white and very coarse. Plus the waters in the Long Island Sound arent really renowned for their cleanliness.
So if the two playbox sand manufacturers do not make it anymore is there an aquarium sand supplier that sells at a reasonable price? I saw a small bag today at ***** for 25 dollars... It scares me at how many of those it would take to even put a couple of inches on the bottom of my tank.
A 700gph pump would be just fine on a 75g, I think. Yes, there is some head loss, but you don't want that much turnover through your sump. What is the brand of your skimmer? It depends on if it is recirculating or venturi or beckett style...
This is what it said on my skimmer... E.T.S.S. by AETech
I don't know what style it is, but it goes in the sump if that helps. Should I get a smaller pump for the return and use the 700 on the skimmer?
Yup, this is called a retrofit kit. You can find them online, and for the most part, you are not going to find electrical parts for saltwater reef lighting at electronic warehouses. VHO bulbs are great, I don't like power compacts too much.
I am not sure what you are saying here. I am still not quite down with all the lingo, are you saying that it is very difficult to build a reasonably priced DIY lighting set?
By the way, thanks for taking the time to respond to my questions.
 
nw2salt08

nw2salt08

Active Member
As far as sand goes, depends on what you plan on putting in the tank. Some fish require a deeper sand bed and others it's not of concern. I have a 55gallon and I put two 30lb. bags of sand in....I have a 2 1/2-3inch sand bed. Hope this helps in giving you an idea of how much you may need/or want.
 
gooch

gooch

Member
Ok, so I have looked into a few things and more and more posts on different matters. I figured out the lighting situation, but I am curious as to why the overall dislike of PC lighting?
I ended up buying a 4 bulb 48" t5 individually reflected hood that was priced dirt cheap. I assume that will be substantially better than the current setup of 2 65 watt PC's.
I was looking at retrofit kits for an eclipse 1 setup. They seem to only have a PC version for it and it is 50 dollars for the retrofit kit. Currently there is only an 18 watt or so regular flourescent light in it. If I plan on setting that thing up in my sons room with some liverook and 1 small fish and perhaps a little coral or something obviously the single flourescent wouldnt be able to do anything but would the PC retrofit lighting kit be enough?
I also looked into the sand issue. I tracked down southdown-old castle playsand at a hardware store in indianapolis online. http://www.ronshomeandhardware.com/P...39351&CartID=1
My question is, is this the sand that you are referring to? The shipping charges were just too expensive to make it worthwhile... 20 dollars a bag.. but the guy gave me the 800 number for southdown and I spoke with a woman there and she said that they don't collect sand from the bahamas anymore and that apparently the new playsand is not silica free, although she seemed slightly unsure.
I am waiting on a call back/email from them where they are going to tell me the type of rock/area it was harvested from and whether or not it is in fact silica free. She did provide me information with some local carriers of the product so if it is in fact decent sand I should be able to pick it up for 3.50+ a bag.
My question though is what is possibly negative about a white sand with silicates? What would it do to my tank if I went with that sand even though she says it has a minimal amount of silicate?
 
gooch

gooch

Member
Ok, so sorry to be bumping my own posts but I think this info will be handy to others who are seeking playsand as a substrate. The customer service rep at southdown emailed me back with 2 word docs.
the first had this:
TECHNICAL DATA SHEET
WHITE PLAYSAND
SCREENED LIMESTONE
Product Codes
25030250# Bags
4201010.4 C.F.
8201250.5 C.F.
CHEMICAL ANALYSIS – (Typical)
Magnesium Carbonate (MgCO3) 1.0%
Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3)96.0%
PHYSICAL PROPERTIES – (Typical)
FINENESS
% Through No. 10 U.S. Standard Sieve 100%
% Through No. 20 U.S. Standard Sieve 56%
% Through No. 50 U.S. Standard Sieve 3%
% Through No. 100 U.S. Standard Sieve 1%
BULK DENSITY
SETTLED - # / FT395#/ft3
Specific Gravity 2.7
The second:
MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET (MSDS)
FOR NATURAL SAND OR GRAVEL
(Complies with OSHA's Hazard Communication Standard, 29 CFR 1910.1200)
Section 1 - IDENTIFICATION
Supplier/ManufacturerEmergency Contact Information
Oldcastle® Stone Products(717) 792-2631 (Laboratory - Ext. 235)
550 S. Biesecker Road
Thomasville, PA 17364
Product name and synonyms
Sand, Gravel, Construction Aggregate
Chemical familyFormula
Limestone (CAS #1317-65-3)Not Applicable
Section 2 - COMPONENTS
Hazardous Ingredients
Respirable quartz (CAS# 14808-60-7) – greater than 0.1% by weight
ACGIH TLV-TWA (2000) = 0.05 mg respirable quartz dust/m3
OSHA PEL (8-hour TWA) = (10 mg respirable dust/m3)/(percent silica + 2)
Section 3 - HAZARD IDENTIFICATION
Potential Health Effects
Relevant Routes of Exposure:
Eye contact, skin contact, inhalation, and ingestion.
Effects Resulting from Eye Contact:
Exposure to airborne dust may cause immediate or delayed irritation or inflammation.
Effects Resulting from Skin Contact:
Direct contact may cause irritation by mechanical abrasion.
Effects Resulting from Inhalation:
Natural Sand or Gravel may contain trace amounts of free crystalline silica. Prolonged exposure to respirable free silica can aggravate other lung conditions and cause silicosis, a disabling and potentially fatal lung disease.
Exposure to limestone dust may cause irritation to the moist mucous membranes of the nose, throat, and upper respiratory system. It may also leave unpleasant deposits in the nose.
Effects Resulting from Ingestion:
Although small quantities of dust are not known to be harmful, ill effects (gastrointestinal irritation and blockage) are possible if larger quantities are consumed.
Carcinogenic potential:
Natural Sand or Gravel are not listed as a carcinogen by NTP, OSHA, or IARC. It may however, contain trace amounts of substances listed as carcinogens by these organizations.
Crystalline silica, which is a component of natural sand or gravel, is now classified by IARC as known human carcinogen (Group I). NTP has characterized respirable silica as "reasonably anticipated to be [a] carcinogen".
Medical conditions which may be aggravated be, inhalation or dermal exposure:
Pre-existing upper respiratory and lung diseases.
Section 4 - FIRST AID
Eyes
Immediately flush eyes thoroughly with water. Continue flushing eye for at least 15 minutes, including under lids, to remove all particles. Call physician if irritation persists or later develops.
Skin
Wash skin with cool water and a mild detergent. Seek medical treatment if irritation persists or later develops.
Inhalation of Airborne Dust
Remove to fresh air. Seek medical help if coughing and other symptoms do not subside.
Ingestion
Do not induce vomiting. If conscious, have the victim drink plenty of water and call a physician immediately.
 
gooch

gooch

Member
continued
Section 5 - FIRE AND EXPLOSION DATA
Flash point ...................................NoneLower Explosive Limit.................…....None
Upper Explosive Limit.................NoneAuto ignition temperature...............…..Not Combustible
Extinguishing media.....................Not CombustibleSpecial fire fighting Procedures....…....None
Hazardous combustion products..NoneUnusual fire and explosion hazards…..None
Section 6 - ACCIDENTAL RELEASE MEASURES
Collect dry material using a scoop. Avoid actions that cause dust to become airborne. Avoid inhalation of dust and contact with skin.
Wetting of spilled materials may be beneficial to minimize generation of airborne dusts.
None of the components of this product are subject to the reporting requirements of Title III of SARA 1986, and 40 CFR 372.
Section 7 - HANDLING AND STORAGE
Follow the personal protection and controls set forth in Section 8 of this MSDS when handling this product. Respirable crystalline silica-containing dust may be generated during processing, handling and storage.
Section 8 - EXPOSURE CONTROLS/PERSONAL PROTECTION
Skin Protection
Wash dust-exposed skin with soap and water before eating, drinking, smoking, and using the toilet facilities. Wash work cloths after each use.
Respiratory Protection
Avoid actions that cause dust to become airborne. Use local or general exhaust ventilation to control exposures below applicable exposure limits.
Use NIOSH/MSHA approved (under 30 CFR 11) or NIOSH approved (under 42 CFR 84) respirators in poorly ventilated areas, if an applicable exposure limit is exceeded, or when dust causes discomfort or irritation. (Advisory: Respirators and filters purchased after June 10, 1998 must be certified under 42 CFR 84.)
Ventilation
Use local exhaust or general dilution ventilation to control exposure within applicable limits.
Eye Protection
Safety glasses with side shields should be worn as minimum protection. In extremely dusty environments and unpredictable environments wear unvented or indirectly vented goggles to avoid eye irritation or injury. Contact lenses should not be worn when working with products which may generate airborne dust.
Section 9 - PHYSICAL AND CHEMICAL, PROPERTIES
Physical state...........Solid Odor................…………….......No distinct odor
Solubility in water...NegligibleVapor pressure..........……..…...Not applicable
Vapor density..........Not applicableBoiling point......…………….....Not applicable (i.e., > 1000 C)
Melting point...........Not applicableSpecific gravity (H20 = 1.0)…....2.55-2.85
Evaporation rate......Not applicable
Section 10 - STABILITY AND REACTIVITY
Stability
Stable.
Conditions to avoid
Avoid contact with incompatible materials (see below).
Incompatibility
Not known to be incompatible with any materials.
Hazardous decomposition
Will not spontaneously occur. Silica-containing respirable dust particles may be generated by handling.
Hazardous Polymerization
Will not occur.
Section 11 - TOXICOLOGICAL INFORMATION
For a description of available, more detailed toxicological information contact the supplier or manufacturer.
Section 12 - ECOLOGICAL INFORMATION
Ecotoxicity
No recognized unusual toxicity to plants or animals
Relevant physical and chemical properties
(See Sections 9 and 10.)
Section 13 - DISPOSAL
Pickup and reuse clean materials. Dispose of waste materials in accordance with applicable federal, state, and local laws and regulations.
Where applicable, dispose of bags in an approved landfill or incinerator.
Section 14 - TRANSPORTATION DATA
Hazardous materials description/proper shipping name
Not hazardous under U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) regulations.
Hazard classIdentification number
Not applicable.Not applicable
Required label textHazardous substances/reportable quantities (RQ)
Not applicable.Not applicable.
Section 15 - OTHER REGULATORY INFORMATION
Status under USDOL-OSHA Hazard Communication Rule, 29 CFR 1910.1200
Natural Sand or Gravel is considered a "hazardous chemical" under this regulation, and should be part of any hazard communication program.
Status under CERCLA/SUPERFUND 40 CFR 117 and 302
Not listed.
Hazard Category under SARA(Title III), Sections 311 and 312
Natural Sand or Gravel does qualify as a "hazardous substance".
Status under SARA (Title III), Section 313
Not subject to reporting requirements under Section 313.
Status under TSCA (as of May 1997)
Some substances in Natural Sand or Gravel are on the TSCA inventory list.
 
gooch

gooch

Member
Status under the Federal Hazardous Substances Act
Limestone is a "hazardous substance" subject to statutes promulgated under the subject act.
Status under California Proposition 65
This product contains up to 0.05 percent of chemicals (trace elements) known to the State of California to cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm. California law requires the manufacturer to give the above warning in the absence of definitive testing to prove that the defined risks do not exist.
Section 16 - OTHER INFORMATION
Prepared by
Lance Griffin
Plant Manager
Oldcastle® Stone Products
550 S. Biesecker RoadThomasville, PA. 17364
(717) 792 - 2631
Approval date or Revision date
Approved: February, 1999
Revised: October, 2002
Other important information
This product should only be used by knowledgeable persons. While the information provided in this material safety data sheet is believed to provide a useful summary of the hazards this product as it is commonly used, the sheet cannot anticipate and provide the all of the information that might be needed in every situation. Inexperienced product users should obtain proper training before using this product.
SELLER MAKES NO WARRANTY, EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, CONCERNING THE PRODUCT OR THE MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS THEREOF FOR ANY PURPOSE OR CONCERNING THE ACCURACY OF ANY INFORMATION PROVIDED BY Oldcastle® Stone Products except that the product shall conform to contracted specifications. The information provided herein was believed by Oldcastle® Stone Products to be accurate at the time of preparation or prepared from sources believed to be reliable, but it is the responsibility of the user to investigate and understand other pertinent sources of information to comply with all laws and procedures applicable to the safe handling and use of product and to determine the suitability of the product for its intended use. Buyer's exclusive remedy shall be for damages and no claim of any kind, whether as to product delivered or for non-delivery of product, and whether based on contract, breach of warranty, negligence, or otherwise shall be greater in amount than the purchase price of the quantity of product in respect of which damages are claimed. In no event shall Seller be liable for incidental or consequential damages, whether Buyer's claim is based on contract, breach of warranty, negligence or otherwise.
I am not quite sure what to make of this. It mentions silicate that could be in this mix... although I don't know if it is specified as the white playsand or if it's talking about its overall selection of products. Then I bolded the part that says there is no unusual toxicity to plants or animimals... So What do you guys/girls make of this?
 
gooch

gooch

Member
nobody here can decipher if this sand is safe for use in the aquarium or not? It says it's limestone based so doesnt that mean its agronite?
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Southdown is just fine to use, but good luck finding it to buy. If you can find it - e-mail me: SnakeBlitz33@gmail.com I'll take about 700lbs
It's made out of aragonite which is calcium based. You can put about a teaspoon of southdown in one cup of vinegar, and it will fizz. If it doesn't fizz, you can't use it as a substrate.
The new southdown may contain some silicates in it, so be careful.
 
gooch

gooch

Member
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33
http:///forum/post/2930313
Southdown is just fine to use, but good luck finding it to buy. If you can find it - e-mail me: SnakeBlitz33@gmail.com I'll take about 700lbs
It's made out of aragonite which is calcium based. You can put about a teaspoon of southdown in one cup of vinegar, and it will fizz. If it doesn't fizz, you can't use it as a substrate.
The new southdown may contain some silicates in it, so be careful.
the quotes I posted came from customer service of old castle which is the new southdown... This is their current version of the white play sand that used to be the tropical one. In it as you can see is the mineral composition and the reports of toxic elements and what not. I am not really too well versed in all this but based on the information you see here do you believe this appears to be a decent base sand I could buy?
 
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