Bush ready to start WWIII

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by rudedog40
You can close this thread now. It's a waste of my time arguing with one-sided, closed-minded people.

Considering you have not rebuttled one thing I have pointed out....Of course not. How can you change someone's view point unless you directly challenge their points. Something you have not done, once, in this thread.
I have had my views changed or atleast brought around to consider the other side of the coin more based off some compelling arguments and facts shown to me by other's on this board. So to say no one's view will change is preposterous. You just have to go about it compellingly instead of repeating the same hashed out Bill Maher mantra...
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by rudedog40
GLORY, GLORY, HALLELULAH!!! It's ridiculous to think you glamorize the fact that "there's not as many bombs as there were before." Hey! Now that's a vacation spot I want to visit. Woohoo! Now I know Iraq is making headway. They have a FedEx, DHL, and cell phone service. When can I head over and open my McDonalds franchise? You want an IAD with those fries?
When you go over there journey, do me a favor and stay there. The Iraqi people deserve you.
More volunteers?
You have got to be joking. The only volunteers are the Gungho Rambo-types who think it'd be fun to go shoot some Iraquis. Just keep on tooting your War Horns, spout how all the great things we're doing for a bunch of $)(*& who would just as soon shoot you as to shake your hand. The only 'facts' you have are what the Republican media feeds you. Keep on hating Clinton. You obviously have nothing better to do with your time. I just hope his wife gets into office, so I can hear you scream with pain about having to deal with her for four years.
You can close this thread now. It's a waste of my time arguing with one-sided, closed-minded people.
They are "IEDs" btw, not "IADs"...
I didn't glamorize anything. I measure success by fewer attacks, lower death rates, commerce, etc. You seem to measure failure by anything President Bush does... No surprise as I think this is how history has judged a liberation of any country.
You laugh at the sacrifice our soliders make by re-enlisting. Laugh away, but you can't erase the retention numbers from 2007...
Instead of saying we're being fed "facts" by the "Republican media" (a joke in and of itself), how about presenting some facts on your own instead of political opinions quickly dismissed by a cursory check of your "facts".
 

ophiura

Active Member
Originally Posted by rudedog40
More volunteers?
You have got to be joking. The only volunteers are the Gungho Rambo-types who think it'd be fun to go shoot some Iraquis. Just keep on tooting your War Horns, spout how all the great things we're doing for a bunch of $)(*& who would just as soon shoot you as to shake your hand.
.
I believe people are entitled to their opinions, and you obviously are quite passionate about it.
But I'm sorry, this statement is completely inappropriate, and an insult to many brave men and women who are not rambo types.
This is a shameful thing to say.
It is unbelievable to me that you can say these things, and then claim that others are fed by republican media and such. It is a pot calling the kettle black, based on some of the comments you've made.
It is something to be passionate about, but I'm sorry, you are not selling your point, IMO. FWIW I would NOT vote for Bush again, I think he has really screwed some things up, to be honest. But now we are, where we are, and we must finish the job.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by rudedog40
More volunteers?
You have got to be joking. The only volunteers are the Gungho Rambo-types who think it'd be fun to go shoot some Iraquis. .
Mods I don't see how this is not personal attack to every person including me who has family in the armed forces.
To attempt to insult and denograte these people is beyond what is acceptable for this forum.
 

scsinet

Active Member
Originally Posted by ophiura
I believe people are entitled to their opinions, and you obviously are quite passionate about it.
But I'm sorry, this statement is completely inappropriate, and an insult to many brave men and women who are not rambo types.
This is a shameful thing to say.
You know, I never caught onto it the first time when I responded to the post, but you're exactly right.
I'd love to hear the OP say such things in a bus full of troops coming back home for the holidays. I'm sure they'll have lots of opinions to express in return.
We have a Iraq vet working here at my company... he stepped away for a couple years to do a stint in Iraq (he was a reserve member that got activated). To hear him speak of the deep passion that so many troops have over there for what they are doing and the difference they feel they are making... then to hear that said. I guess it's his right to say it though.
That... from someone who used the term "armchair quarterback" earlier.
It doesn't matter. There's no changing any opinions. It's the same kind of lefts at work here that spat on the 'Nam troops when they returned home.
I vote close. The thread has hit rock bottom.
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
Mods I don't see how this is a personal attack to every person including me who has family in the armed forces.

I'm sure many feel the same way. I personally feel it is more an attack on our armed services in general, but I've never served. Feel free to pm me or one of the other Mods if you wish it removed. I only left it in because I feel it puts into perspective the OP's entire thread.
 

m0nk

Active Member
I was an Army volunteer, 3rd Mechanized Infantry, and although I don't agree with the war, if I was still in the Army at the time of deployment, I would have gone, that's just what you do when you're in the military. I have often thought about signing up again, for various reasons (not any of which has to do with the war), but having a son now makes it difficult to come to that decision. That statement offended me as well. I'm sorry, but it did go a bit too far.
 

1journeyman

Active Member
As for closing threads.
That's not something that's normally "voted" on.
As Mods we lock threads on our discretion. Typically we look for personal attacks, general "mean-spiritied" posts, way off topic, etc.
A thread like this won't be closed (by me at least) because it then invites other people to clutter the forums with their opinions that they don't wish to discuss.
This forum is for discussion, not ranting, editorializing, or posting propaganda. If you post your opinion in the "aquarium" on a topic guarranteed to start a forest fire, be prepared to have your opinion discussed at length.
 

scsinet

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
As for closing threads.
That's not something that's normally "voted" on.
As Mods we lock threads on our discretion. Typically we look for personal attacks, general "mean-spiritied" posts, way off topic, etc.
A thread like this won't be closed (by me at least) because it then invites other people to clutter the forums with their opinions that they don't wish to discuss.
This forum is for discussion, not ranting, editorializing, or posting propaganda. If you post your opinion in the "aquarium" on a topic guarranteed to start a forest fire, be prepared to have your opinion discussed at length.
My comment was intended as a figure of speech, intended to underscore my opinion that the thread has been reduced to arguments that are going nowhere, not a literal "vote."
 

mfp1016

Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
They are "IEDs" btw, not "IADs"...
I saw this a couple times in some of the posts. It is too funny.
 

reefraff

Active Member
My opinions and viewpoints come straight from what I've heard from people who have actually been over there. I've had four friends and relatives deployed over the last few years for various tours

"More volunteers? You have got to be joking. The only volunteers are the Gungho Rambo-types who think it'd be fun to go shoot some Iraquis. Just keep on tooting your War Horns, spout how all the great things we're doing for a bunch of $)(*& who would just as soon shoot you as to shake your hand. The only 'facts' you have are what the Republican media feeds you. Keep on hating Clinton. You obviously have nothing better to do with your time. I just hope his wife gets into office, so I can hear you scream with pain about having to deal with her for four years."
Amazing that both statement come from the same person.
So dog, I guess you are forming your opinions of what is "really" happening in Iraq based on the reports from "Gungho Rambo-types who think it'd be fun to go shoot some Iraquis"
 

cowfishrule

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
Maybe your friends and family that went there are of the class of inbred morons that get off on torturing small animals and think it would be cool to go play Rambo and shoot Iraqis but the military has been fairly successful at weeding out those types of people. Not perfect but pretty damned good.
Personal attacks like this will not be tolerated.
Uncalled for and Immature. Grow up pal.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by rudedog40
If he backed out now, he'd go down in history as the president who couldn't catch the perpetrators of 9/11, and starting a war everyone knew he could never win.
I know...good news and success in Iraq gets buried by the liberal media. I'm convinced a large group in Amreica want us to fail.
American Forces Press Service
WASHINGTON, Nov. 15, 2007 – Success is possible in Iraq, a senior Army commander there said today based on progress he has seen since his recent return to the country.
Speaking to a group of Internet journalists and “bloggers” via telephone from Iraq, Army Brig. Gen. James C. Boozer Sr., deputy commander of Multinational Division North, said he is “absolutely amazed” at improvements there since his return last month. This is his third tour in the country.
“This is a turning point. … I think in the next 12 or 15 months … that we’re going to make history. We’re going to allow the nation of Iraq to build itself,” Boozer said. “I believe that we can have success in Iraq, that it is possible.”
Boozer said he has seen “an absolute certain increase in capacity” in the Iraqi security forces since a previous tour there in 2004 and 2005.
Four Iraqi army divisions with about 55,000 soldiers operate in the nearly 50,000-square-mile area Boozer is responsible for. About 80,000 Iraqi police operate there, along with 25,000 coalition forces.
Boozer called the Iraqi security forces there some of the best he’s seen. For the most part, he said, they are conducting independent operations at a brigade combat team level. “That is a large leap from what they were able to do back in 2004-2005,” he said.
The commander said three elements are essential to continued progress in the region:
– Allowing provincial local governments the ability to dialogue with the central government;
– Transitioning Iraqi security forces so they can conduct independent operations; and
– Setting conditions for a stable economic environment so the economy can grow.
“We’re doing nation building here,” he said. “We need to sustain and attain the security environment that we are currently enjoying.”
Increased security has resulted in a decline in violence in the region, he said. Also, a groundswell of local citizens is coming forward to help secure neighborhoods and join the Iraqi security forces. “All of this is coming together at the right time and the right place, I think, where we can see success here in Iraq in the coming future,” Boozer said.
Some al Qaeda cells have migrated north after being driven out of Baghdad by military operations there. But, Boozer said, his forces are pinpointing those cells.
“We believe that we have clearly disrupted al Qaeda here in MND North, and we will continue to sustain that pressure on them. We believe that that they are on their heels, that we’ve certainly knocked the breath out of them. But they can still conduct vicious attacks, … but they are isolated vicious attacks. They cannot bring together complex attacks like they could in the past,” Boozer said.
Coalition forces also will continue working with the Iraqi army and police on their logistics abilities and sustainment capabilities, which are showing progress, as well, Boozer said.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
You're missing the point on the WMD's. Many of those reports President Bush had came from President Clinton... How can you ignore that?
You accuse the "pro=war" crowd of scare tactics, yet then say "THE'RE ALREADY HERE". That's silly. Bin Laden has repeatedly called for attacks against the USA. What, did the terror cells fall asleep? They on vacation?
Journeyman...there is reports the WMD's were moved to Syria before we invaded.
In February 2003, a month before America's invasion in Iraq, very few are aware about the efforts to bring the Weapons of Mass Destruction from Iraq to Syria, and the personal involvement of Bashar Assad and his family in the operation.
Nayouf, who has won prizes for journalistic integrity, says he wrote his letter because he has terminal cancer.
First Message from the Syrian source to Nizar Nayouf
First messages from a Syrian Source, WMD Location
"Dear Nizar.
We received confirmations that the Iraqi weapons, which were moved to Syria by the help of General Zoul-Himla Chalich are now hidden in three places inside Syria:
First place: a tunnel dug in the mountain close to the Al-Baïdah village, which is roughly two kilometers from Misyaf village. This place is under the 489 Safety cipher Documents' office control .
Second place: the factory of the Air Armed Forces in the village of Tal Sinan, between the town of Hama and Salamiyyah. This factory is under the Air Force control.
Third place: the location of Shinsar, 40 kilometers south of Homs, two kilometers east of the Homs - Damascus road. There are underground tunnels there, controlled by Brigade 661 of the armed air Forces. It is a Brigade of air Patrol. The tunnels are several tens of meters deep.
The weapons were transported in large wooden cases and barrels, under the supervision of the General Zoul-Himla Chalich and the son of his brother Assef, who works at Al-Bachaer company.
The company is owned by the Assad family and has offices in Beirut, Damascus and Baghdad.
This company also undertook the illegal Iraqi oil importation in Syria, and supplied weapons to Saddam. I will try to send you all the new information as i get .
Take care and be safe."
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by rudedog40
I personally would prefer we 'put our heads back into the sand' and get the heck out of Dodge. Sorry, no matter how much you think we're the Saviors of the Terroristic World, the world is still 'goin' to heck' with or without us trying to do it all. Nothing we do over there will change that. If you really think it's true, slip on your ruby slippers, click the heels three times, and repeat "There's no place like home..."
That's the spirit..we can't win, lets quit forget about it and go home. We're all slipping down the turlet so lets just sit and do nothing.
No thanks...I'll vote the proactive approach over sitting in the corner shaking.
What is YOUR strategy for fighting terrorism? Hiding?
You're right, maybe they'll play nice if we offer them a cookie.
 

scubadoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by m0nk
I was an Army volunteer, 3rd Mechanized Infantry, and although I don't agree with the war, if I was still in the Army at the time of deployment, I would have gone, that's just what you do when you're in the military. I have often thought about signing up again, for various reasons (not any of which has to do with the war), but having a son now makes it difficult to come to that decision. That statement offended me as well. I'm sorry, but it did go a bit too far.
Thanks for your service...you are a hero. It is men and women like you that allow us to have this open discussion. It is your sacrifice through service to our country that allows us to enjoy the things we too easliy take for granted. Many of us loose sight as to why we proactively seek to protect and preserve our freedom.
THANKS!
 

m0nk

Active Member
Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
Thanks for your service...you are a hero. It is men and women like you that allow us to have this open discussion. It is your sacrifice through service to our country that allows us to enjoy the things we too easliy take for granted. Many of us loose sight as to why we proactively seek to protect and preserve our freedom.
THANKS!
Thanks, though I feel like I'm getting too much credit, my time was up before the conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq and although I had really considered re-enlisting for another term, life happened and I never got around to it. I have felt somewhat guilty that the people I served with went off to war while I was here, but that's the nature of the volunteer military, I suppose.
I do feel the need to point out to the OP that the military offers more than just an excuse to go kill people. There are financial bonuses for signing up, which a lot of poorer Americans could really put to good use, there are educational rewards (Montgomery GI funds, as well as educational funding while you're on active duty), and more. I also think it's important to note that I don't have the same ideology as many who have posted before, but I respect their views and would never insult or slander the servicemen/women to try and make a counter-point to those views. We/they make a sacrifice to try and have a better life, or to help others have better lives. Servicemen/women also have no hand in foreign policy making and can't be blamed in any way for what anyone may feel to be a failed policy.
 

mfp1016

Member
Originally Posted by m0nk
Thanks, though I feel like I'm getting too much credit, my time was up before the conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq and although I had really considered re-enlisting for another term, life happened and I never got around to it. I have felt somewhat guilty that the people I served with went off to war while I was here, but that's the nature of the volunteer military, I suppose.
I do feel the need to point out to the OP that the military offers more than just an excuse to go kill people. There are financial bonuses for signing up, which a lot of poorer Americans could really put to good use, there are educational rewards (Montgomery GI funds, as well as educational funding while you're on active duty), and more. I also think it's important to note that I don't have the same ideology as many who have posted before, but I respect their views and would never insult or slander the servicemen/women to try and make a counter-point to those views. We/they make a sacrifice to try and have a better life, or to help others have better lives. Servicemen/women also have no hand in foreign policy making and can't be blamed in any way for what anyone may feel to be a failed policy.
I agree with you, but you also point out one of many issues I have with liberals. They are all about "Supporting the troops" but what have any of them actually done to support the troops? Putting a sticker on the back of your car doesn't help anyone but yourself and the image you're trying to convey to people. Personally, I keep correspondences with several soldiers in Iraq, as well as sending goodies over once a month (anything from movies, video games, to candy or whatever else reminds them of home).
Furthermore, I think most of the lefts have a very skewed view of the military. Just as some people here fulfilled my primary stereotype of the left, and exemplified in this thread; most of them think the military is a bunch of Rambo-like guys bent on killing. Sadly for the uneducated, the infantry (the only place one of those types would even go to) is only a fraction of what the military means. Recently a family member of mine went into the army and I had the luck of meeting several guys from his platoon. I asked them why they had joined the military, and the answers were varied. Economic benefit, college tuition, were just some of the answers given. My favorite was from a doctorate of philosophy who joined the enlisted ranks because he wanted to combat existentialism. Out of 25+ guys, I don't recall hearing one of them say, "Because I want to kill people" or "Because of 911" or "Because of terrorists."
Like Journeyman said, the retention rates cannot be erased or ignored. I'm not saying that the military and everyone in it is for the war; I'm saying most military personnel believe they are doing good-work over there, and everyone of them (that I've spoken with) agrees that Iraq was in shambles before our presence and has only seen positive change in the country since then.
 

mfp1016

Member
Originally Posted by ScubaDoo
That's the spirit..we can't win, lets quit forget about it and go home. We're all slipping down the turlet so lets just sit and do nothing.
No thanks...I'll vote the proactive approach over sitting in the corner shaking.
What is YOUR strategy for fighting terrorism? Hiding?
You're right, maybe they'll play nice if we offer them a cookie.
No dems assume that cuting and running will become a fad, and the terrorists will follow in kind. It will be the new thing in the world to do; bury your head in the sand. Economists agree this will help the sand and quarry industries explode.
 
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