C. irritans life cycle and hypo

[mikegronholz]

Not going to be "technical" BUT ....
My new favorite LFs quarantines ALL new arrivals for 3 weeks before moving to their "sell tanks". The quantine tanks are labeled "Quarantine" and another label is put on if it is being treated for Ich, not eating, fin rot or whatever. If you see a fish in a QT tank you want, you can leave a non-refundable deposit on it. I thought this was the dumbest thing I ever heard of, but I put I waited and got my firefish from them. I QT'd to be certain, and nothing. A friend at work bought 6 fish all at one for his 125. NOTHING (but some ammonia rise). And 1 of those was a PBT !!! There fish are definitely more expensive (***** False Perc is $12.99, theirs is $17.99). $5 might not seem like much, but do the math and that is a 38% mark up. Will I pay it...ABSOLUTELY !!! Some stuff is the same price as online, but you pay more for what you can see. My purple firefish were $40 each. Purple firefish on SWF.com $20 plus shipping (in most cases). That is 50% !!!
So, is it feasable...YES Is it cost effective ? Depends, but I had to stand and wait 25 minutes for someone to get my fish...on a Thursday afternoon !!!
Just my $0.02

 

[itchy]

I am sorry.. I didn't mean for it to sound as though money was an issue when buying fish. It is just that SW fish are not cheap as it is and some LFS would take advantage of this situation. I realize that it would be nice to have all LFS QT fish but is it realistic? Probably not. Maybe it is not realistic to me because I live in a rather small area as opposed to some of you and the choices I have here are limited so I could see QT all fish becoming a problem for some of the smaller LFS that in general are good to deal with. I have been in a LFS here that I deal with weekly and have seen signs that say "under doctors care" so I do know that in some cases QT is used, but not with all of the fish. I just think that we, meaning the responsible consumer would be rewarded more by QT our fish ourselves, rather than depend on the LFS.
Not to mention some fish become stressed in transport or just in new enviroments.

 

[tangaeric]

Hmmmmm...............all valid points and food for thought. Really interesting.
Robyn, despite the fact that the responsible hobbyist should 'nurse' their new fish (through a quarantene) into the display and simply not just 'dump' them in there, we cannot forget about the fact that collectors need to be more responsible. As I mentioned, as it stands now there are many unscrupulous collectors not taking responsibility to make it a more respectible trade.
Is there anyone that does not agree with the fact that it is most probably the collector/exporter of the fish who is in the best position to quarantene all fish in hypo? The collector is the first stage in the trade and thus the point where the fish are at the lowest cost. No packing costs, shipping costs, losses during shipping, nor mark-up have come into play yet. Thus, the only added cost to quarantening the fish at this stage is the cost it takes to stock the fish for 3 weeks minimum in hypo (the duration is still something for us to agree on). Therefore, in my mind, not only is it the right thing to do for the collector/exporter to take responsibility in shipping the healthiest fish possible, but also it is at this stage that quarantening the fish in hypo would result in the lowest added costs? Do we agree?
Then, if a certified collector/exporter certifies his fish have been through 3 weeks in hypo at SG of 1.009, the there is no more need for the LFS receiving the fish to do the same. Of course they should still 'nurse' the fish back to better health after receiving them after a long trip, but ick would not be a problem anymore at this stage. Therefore, no special quarantene tanks in hypo would be necessary at the LFS level which would reduce costs.
Now, a hobbyist with no knowledge of aquariums and fish walks into the LFS and wants to buy a set-up. In that LFS he/she would get a wealth of knowledge concerning the certification system that the fish have undergone to remove ick and other potential parasites, from a happy well-informed and responsible salesperson. The hobbyist would get brochures to take home to read up on so that when they make their mind up then they already know about the certification system that the fish have gone through and what it means for healthier fish, ultimately resulting in bigger smiles for him/her and less pain from ick devastating their new beautiful dream set-up a few weeks down the line. The LFS would still also recommend and explain a quarantene system for the fish just to 'ease' them comfortably into their new home. Again, after going through the certification system, there would be no need to perform hypo at this stage because ick and many other external parasites would not be a problem anymore at this stage.
I believe that using such as system the added cost of quarantening fish in hypo at the collector/exporter stage would be offset by the higher survival of fish at later stages and probably result in less expensive fish.........does anyone not agree with this theory?

 

[beth]

Well, I don't see hypo being taken up in the marketing componet of this hobby except in the rarest of LFSs.
Lets say you get 30 fish in a shipment at the LFS. 3 are tomato clowns, and 5 are percs. Can you put these in the same tank? No. So, now you have 2 tanks to QT 2 species of fish and do hypo on them. In that same shipment, you have 3 triggers. Can you put these in the same tank for a mo together? Probably not unless the LFS has a larger tank. Can they go in with any of the clowns? No. Now you have 3 tanks with your shippment.
Same shipment you got 3 angel fish and 3 tangs? Can these fish be put together for a month. Maybe with a large tank. Now you're up to 4 QT's.
Now you got 5 chromis and 6 blue damsels. Can any of these go in the above tanks? No. Now you have 6 tanks for this week's shipment. None of these fish are going to be sold for at least 4 wks. You will likely loose money due to fish loss resulting from aggression and other diseases. If 5 of these fish get something else, say brooklynella, they will have to be treated for this as well. None of these tanks can share filtration.
Ok you got 30 fish in 6 different QT's some in larger tanks.
Next wk, you get another shippment of 30 fish. None of these fish can go in these 6 QT's because you're 1 wk in hypo. Thus the process begins again, with new tanks. Or you can only order 30 fish a month, minimumly maintain 6+ QT deadicated to hypo for a min of 4 wks.
Yeah right! Go out of business.

 

[tangaeric]

Hi Beth,
Maybe I was not clear enough in my last post. I state that feasibly the only stage at which hypo can realistically be done for 3 weeks is at the collector/exporter stage, NOT AT THE LFS stage. I, like you, cannot see a LFS doing it for the same reasons you mentioned. A collector/shipper can collect for up to six days say 10 different species of fish and keep them all separated by species (would this work? Yes, because I have seen it done, and clearly a collector/shipper will have a large and well organized set-up to hold fish by species). Once he/she has done that, it can be considered a batch of maybe several hundred fish divided into 10 different species and depending on species and size kept in between 10-20 tanks. The batch is labelled and records are maintained for traceability purposes; after all this would be a certified system.
The collector can then begin hyposalinity treatment of this batch of fish. During the hypo of this first batch of fish, the collector can continue to fish for new fish which will then enter a second batch of hypo fish......and so on. Once the 21 day period of hypo and reacclimatizing is over then the fish can be shipped.
If this is done and the LFS only buys fish from certified collectors/exporters (and by collector/exporter I mean the company that collects the fish in the sea in whichever country), then there is no need for both the LFS or the hobbyist who buys the fish for his/her aquarium at home to do any hyposalinity treatment any more. So, all that the LFS would need is a few acclimation/nursing tanks in which to keep the new arrivals for a few days before putting them on display, just to give them a rest period after their long trip.
Again; NO MORE HYPO IS NEEDED TO BE PERFORMED BY THE LFS NOR THE HOBBYIST once the collector/shipper has done it.
In this manner having ick-free fish will be much less costly than doing it at any other stage.
Now, for the certificationsystem to work, there has to be an ick-free system from catch to aquarium. This means that all the LFS has to do is to ONLY buy fish from certified collectors/shippers and the hobbyist must not mix fish from an ick-free certified LFS with those from another fish store that is not Ick-free certified. It would not be difficult for a LFS to track customer records through a record-keeping system, and through information as I mentioned on my last post.
Now, is this feasible and responsible in your opinion? I don't know if there would be better business since less fish would die and thus LFSs would sell less fish, but at least the trade would be more respectible............