Calcium, buffer, and now Kalk Drip?

[azfishgal]

OK, so do you have to do this drip thing if you are adding Liquid Calcium? I added some Kent Marine Liquid Calcium to my 125 gallon tank because the test was coming out 350ppm. Well after a few hours I tested it and it's still coming out 350ppm. :notsure: I also added Kent Marine Superbuffer-dKH because my alk was low (1.7) as well as my pH (8.0). It says on the Superbuffer to add everyday until the correct level of alk and pH is reached, then add on a weekly basis. Is that what you all do? And what would be the ideal level for alk? Do I have to add Calcium every day like it says on the bottle?
My tank has been running for 1 1/2 months and has clean up crew, 160 lbs of lr, 100 lbs of ls, sump/refuge, and skimmer. I don't have fish yet, but will be adding my false percs in a few days. No corals yet, just two feather dusters. I'm just trying to get my tank ready for corals before I put them in. Is there anything else I'm missing to make my reef tank ideal for both fish and coral (softies).

 

[moneyman]

For you to raise cal from 350 to 400, you'll need 8oz of Kent Liquid Calcium. That's 1/2 the 16 oz bottle.
I don't know the concentration of Superbuffer, but I assume it to be similar to baking soda. You most likely need to add about 2 oz to bring 1.7 meq to 3.5 meq.

 

[azfishgal]

(I put this on my diary but since it's relavent to this thread I thought I would post it here too. Moneyman, you also explained why my calcium levels did not rise as I did not add enough. How fast should I add the 8 oz, which that's the bottle I have so you are talking about the whole bottle, right? Which means I need to go back to the store and get another one. )
Some interesting things happened over night. First let me say what I did yesterday. I added 3 tsp. of Kent Marine Liquid Calcium because my calcium level was 350ppm, and then I also added 4 tsp of Kent Marine Superbuffer-dKH because alk was low (1.7) and pH was 8.0. Well this morning all levels are still the same, but one of my shrimp has molted (had no idea they molted their antanas), one hermit crab in the sump is out of it's shell dead (now being eaten by the others) and one hermit is out of it's shell, but still alive hanging out in the cheato. I'm pretty sure this little guy is dieing because he's lost a leg and there is spiderweb like tracks over the rock and some on the side of the sump, I think that's coming from the dieing hermit. I tested everything else and this is what I came up with:
Calcium 350ppm
Phosphate 0.1
pH 8.0
Alk 1.7
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0.05 (I think this may be a false reading, because it's never read 0)
Nitrate 10
Salinity 1.025
Temp 78.6
So what do you think, just a coincidence and the cycle of life, or something else might be wrong? According to the directions on the calcium I'm supposed to add some every day, but how do I get it up to the level that I need. I should have it up to 450ppm, right? And the Superbuffer sais to add daily until I get the levels of pH and alk that I need then add weekly. Is that right?
And what about the Kalk dip, do I need it?

 

[moneyman]

You can drip kalk if you like. However, your work will outweigh the benefit. Kalk solution is a lot less concentrated than your Kent Liquid Calcium and SuperBuffer.
Get yourself Kent Turbo Calcium. It is a solid and a lot more potent then the liquid calcium. You only need 2.3 oz of this stuff to raise your cal from 350 to 400.
Spread your calcium / alkalinity dose over 3 days.
For a reef tank, you can keep your calcium anywhere from 400 - 450ppm. Keep your alk around 3.5 meq.

 

[azfishgal]

I was going to get the Kent Turbo but all my lfs had was the liquid, so I thought it was better than nothing. I'll have to place an order for the Turbo. Thanks for the help.

 

[gwh57]

Originally Posted by azfishgal
I was going to get the Kent Turbo but all my lfs had was the liquid, so I thought it was better than nothing. I'll have to place an order for the Turbo. Thanks for the help.
FWIW I use pure calcium chloride from the pool supply outlet. It is many times cheaper that what you get from the LFS.

 

[andreyv]

Originally Posted by azfishgal
Calcium 350ppm
Phosphate 0.1
pH 8.0
Alk 1.7
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0.05 (I think this may be a false reading, because it's never read 0)
Nitrate 10
Salinity 1.025
Temp 78.6
There is a “Reef chemistry calculator” on the web – pretty useful thing.
Your will enter your current and target parameters and it will show you how much to add various additives and their affect on Ph.
http://reef.diesyst.com/

 

[azfishgal]

Originally Posted by AndreyV
There is a “Reef chemistry calculator” on the web – pretty useful thing.
Your will enter your current and target parameters and it will show you how much to add various additives and their affect on Ph.
http://reef.diesyst.com/

That's a very cool site, I definitley bookmarked it.

The only problem with the alk is they don't list the product I'm using, but at least it gives me an idea. I will of course err on the side of caution so I don't mess anything up.

 

[azfishgal]

Originally Posted by gwh57
FWIW I use pure calcium chloride from the pool supply outlet. It is many times cheaper that what you get from the LFS.
Really? How long have you been using that stuff?

 

[gwh57]

Originally Posted by azfishgal
Really? How long have you been using that stuff?
Over a year after I saw how much I was spending on other supplements. I only use baking soda and calcium chloride now. I mix up two gals of each and use until it is gone.

 

[kalied20]

I am using the pure calcium carbonite and baking soda. The trick to the baking soda is to actually bake it first for about an hour on 350 or so. It will dry it out. This will help with raising your ALK. If you didn't want to raise, but just sustain your ALK then don't bake.
The other trick with using these two things is to add them separately. At least 20 minutes apart. If you add them together they tend to parcipitate out instead of absorb into your water.
And don't forget Mg. Epson salt.
google two part solution....great information on how to supplement CA, ALK, and Mg.

 

[gwh57]

Originally Posted by kalied20
I am using the pure calcium carbonite and baking soda. The trick to the baking soda is to actually bake it first for about an hour on 350 or so. It will dry it out. This will help with raising your ALK. If you didn't want to raise, but just sustain your ALK then don't bake.
The other trick with using these two things is to add them separately. At least 20 minutes apart. If you add them together they tend to parcipitate out instead of absorb into your water.
And don't forget Mg. Epson salt.
google two part solution....great information on how to supplement CA, ALK, and Mg.
You are correct. I add the cal in the am and alk in the pm. I don't bake mine because my PH stays high enough as is.

 

[davidmwj]

Wow!, excellent thread! That site I googled is very helpful as well, kalied20.
Thanks all.

 

[moneyman]

There is now a guy that sell these chemicals for reefers who cant find them locally. Google up "two part solution".

 

[gwh57]

Originally Posted by MoneyMan
There is now a guy that sell these chemicals for reefers who cant find them locally. Google up "two part solution".
Arm & Hammer baking soda and Calcium Plus are pretty easy to find locally.

 

[azfishgal]

All of you have given me some great info. Now, my next question is, should I focus on alk first, then worry about my calcium, or is it safe to do both, as long as I dose one in the morning and the other at night?

 

[kalied20]

It is safe to do both just like you mentioned. Do a lot of reading on the site that you googled for two part solutions and check out reefvideos dot com. They got a great video on the amounts to mix for one gallon of each. And don't forget the Mg.
If you got high speed internet, check out Carl's tank video....that thing is "TREMENDOUS"....if you strive for a reef tank, that is the one to model after....

 

[gwh57]

Originally Posted by azfishgal
All of you have given me some great info. Now, my next question is, should I focus on alk first, then worry about my calcium, or is it safe to do both, as long as I dose one in the morning and the other at night?
These two work hand and hand. You should be checking both and not just one.

 

[salt_water]

Yes, using all these original additives works fine, but what about trace minerals/elements. This is the reason I believe consistant water changes are easiest to keep up on all aspects of water parameters. The price of salt is not bad if you think about everything that is in the salt mix. Find yourself a good brand, it should have all the buffers, trace-elements and calcium you need. Stay consistent with water changes and so shall your tank parameters, unless of course you have a trapped dead fish and so on, but under normal circumstances. As far as I know this is what most LFS do. They dont mix up huge ammounts of each thing they need to add to their tanks. Just a thought.

 

[azfishgal]

Originally Posted by salt_water
Yes, using all these original additives works fine, but what about trace minerals/elements. This is the reason I believe consistant water changes are easiest to keep up on all aspects of water parameters. The price of salt is not bad if you think about everything that is in the salt mix. Find yourself a good brand, it should have all the buffers, trace-elements and calcium you need. Stay consistent with water changes and so shall your tank parameters, unless of course you have a trapped dead fish and so on, but under normal circumstances. As far as I know this is what most LFS do. They dont mix up huge ammounts of each thing they need to add to their tanks. Just a thought.
If a salt out there would do everything I'd love to know the name of it. Right now I use Tropic Marin and it has all the trace elements and it would be perfect if I was doing FOWLR, but I want coral and inverts, so I need a higher calcium and alk level than the salt can provide, right? I'm not really to worried right now becuase I have no corals at the moment, just shrimp, snails and crabs. I want to make sure I can control my levels before adding any corals. I'm not one to freak out over it though, I'll do the best I can and see what happens.