92protruck
Member
anybody know or treated a flame angel with cupramine (for ich)? I know some fish don't do well with copper is a flame one of them?
can flame angel handle copper?
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92protruck
Member
thanks Tim. Anybody else with an opinion?
carshark
Active Member
you still have fish?? I thought you lost them all?? by the way my hypo is going ok. my levels went up pretty good but they will settle, I just did a 20% water change.. so after all that changing, I lost a lot of water...havent talked in a while. you have an angel with ick still?
dont use copper man, it is really not good for them...you know that....
dont use copper man, it is really not good for them...you know that....
92protruck
Member
no...no...not my fish. I have a friend with the flame angel. He does not want to do hypo..and I can't say that I blame him! I won't do it again. But I thought I heard some fish were more problematic than others using copper and I thought I remembered the flame being one. I did a search but can't find any info on what fish not to do copper on. He saw what I went thru with hypo and ain't going that route.
As for me....one six line wrasse survived and is still in hypo.
As for me....one six line wrasse survived and is still in hypo.
I would not use copper on a tang or a angel....so all that is left then is hypo. If the source water in hypo is appropriately buffered, then there should be no problem....but I understand your POV. I have never ever, in the 5 yrs I have been here had that happen, I have to say. Perhaps taking hypo a lot slower?
92protruck
Member
thanks Beth. I will pass on the info. As for hypo, at least for me, after reading many of your posts (like the last one) and the FAQ's it leads me (and I would think others) to believe hypo is safe and effective. Now, I know those are relative terms but if you do a search on this site for hypo fish died you will find many people who have lost a lot of fish while trying to treat with hypo. Elfdoctors, Lionkiller, Kip, MMonster, Birdy, Carrie1429, Wrasscal just to name a few. I did not spend the time to read everything. I know each case was different and the fish were lost for a variety of reasons, including to sick to begin with, but the point is many people have lost many fish in hypo in the last 5 years, at least according to this website. I am still looking for published experts in the field that support hypo. I have not found many. Copper seems to still be the preferred choice in published Phd/expert marine biologists works. As you know, TerryB suggests there are a few strains of ich that are resistant to hypo but killed by copper (along with amyloodium which many mistake for ich). So, I just think hypo is over-rated on this site. I know you don't like differing viewpoints but I just think people should be able to read all they can and make an informed choice. No disrespect intended and I again thankyou for your hard work and many hours helping us out.
All of the experts support hypo. A lot of what you read on the web, may be old info. Additionally, in many situations, copper is easier. Especially for those, like professionals, that have to deal with massive outbreak.
And, let me say, while we may have a lot of respect for many professionals, most of them are by far no experts in fish diseases. There are a few who specialize specifically with fish health and diseases. Try doing a search on the web for Steven Pro and Terry Bartelme and topics on Cryptocaryon irritans.
I have never said that copper is not effective. It is, however, toxic to fish, and fish tanks and needs to treated as viable, yet toxic medication. And tangs and angels are not good candidates for copper exposure.
If you are up to it, post up those situational thread where you found problems with hypo....likely other things caused the problem with the treatment, but, I have an open mind, and it could be a learning exp if you care to post up your research you've done here.
And, let me say, while we may have a lot of respect for many professionals, most of them are by far no experts in fish diseases. There are a few who specialize specifically with fish health and diseases. Try doing a search on the web for Steven Pro and Terry Bartelme and topics on Cryptocaryon irritans.
I have never said that copper is not effective. It is, however, toxic to fish, and fish tanks and needs to treated as viable, yet toxic medication. And tangs and angels are not good candidates for copper exposure.
If you are up to it, post up those situational thread where you found problems with hypo....likely other things caused the problem with the treatment, but, I have an open mind, and it could be a learning exp if you care to post up your research you've done here.
flamehawk
Active Member
I tend to agree that hypo losses have been numerous. Unfortunately with all considered, it's probably the better option. I'm looking at my friends tank as I write and they are breathing quite hard. PH is fine and hypo level -14ppt as measured by my refrac........high risk treatment but perhaps best option.....
flamehawk
Active Member
Thanks beth but the flame was not very sick. Had a few spots on his tail and was eating fine until the third day in hypo( after taking 2 days to lower salinity). Then all of the sudden started breathing really hard, lost color and stopped eating. Died today. Other fish also breathing hard. Checked all readings and all is well. It's got to be the hypo.......
carshark
Active Member
is it possible the people you speak of, and maybe yourself assume that 48 hours means two days? you would have to lower it 48 hours straight, at hour intervals to do it in two days... maybe its been lowered way too fast....mine took 5 days to get 48 hours in, I have a 75..
birdy
Active Member
I thought I would just chime in for a sec. since I saw my name mentioned. Yes I have lost fish during hypo and I have saved fish due to hypo.
I have personally come to the conclusion that most peoples QT are just too small to maintain water quality. The reduced salinity makes keeping pH and ammonia at optimal levels difficult and the smaller the tank the harder it is, a 10gal QT is just not a good hospital tank IMO.
I am now using a 40 breeder for my hospital tank and I am bringing back a porky puffer that I thought was surley going to die, the ich was horrible and it got a secondary bacterial infection (incredibly cloudy eyes). The ich is gone and after Maracyn-two and now Furacyn treatments the bacterial infection is going away.
Anyway I am not sure what size QT tank you have or what you have in it, but I now keep Rock in my QT tank for the fish (I think they are more secure that way), my QT tanks are black on 4 sides and I use a HOB powerfilter with biowheel for filtration.
That is my two cents anyway.
I have personally come to the conclusion that most peoples QT are just too small to maintain water quality. The reduced salinity makes keeping pH and ammonia at optimal levels difficult and the smaller the tank the harder it is, a 10gal QT is just not a good hospital tank IMO.
I am now using a 40 breeder for my hospital tank and I am bringing back a porky puffer that I thought was surley going to die, the ich was horrible and it got a secondary bacterial infection (incredibly cloudy eyes). The ich is gone and after Maracyn-two and now Furacyn treatments the bacterial infection is going away.
Anyway I am not sure what size QT tank you have or what you have in it, but I now keep Rock in my QT tank for the fish (I think they are more secure that way), my QT tanks are black on 4 sides and I use a HOB powerfilter with biowheel for filtration.
That is my two cents anyway.
flamehawk
Active Member
Some clarification.....The QT is a 55g. It has been up and running for 6 months. It is bare and has a cannister filter. As you can see it's fully cucled. As far as taking down salinity, I've been told to do it in small increments over 48 hours. I actually took closer to 60 hours and did it slowly.
I'm confident that in this case, hypo was too stressful for the FA. Like others, I have lost and saved fish using hypo......tragedies of the hobby which is quite unfortunate since I hate to lose these great animals.....
I'm confident that in this case, hypo was too stressful for the FA. Like others, I have lost and saved fish using hypo......tragedies of the hobby which is quite unfortunate since I hate to lose these great animals.....