Can I add another fish ?

[paulyt123]

I would appreciate your advice. I currently have a 125 gallon tank. I have no corrals.
2 maroon clowns
1 orange shoulder tang
1 yellow tang
1 flame angel
1 koran angel
2 cleaner shrimp.
All the fish are juveniles but I am hoping to keep these fish for many years. Will I be able to add a racoon butterfly fish? I would like to look out a couple of years. Will these fish as adults with an adult racoon be too much? Of course the LFS tells me I have room for plenty more fish. I would like an unbiased opinion.
My filtration is 2 eheim classic canisters.
Large Aqua C remora hang on skimmer.
Penguin Bio wheel with 2 wheels I forgot what model it is.
Green killing machine 24w UV sterilizer.
Thank you to all that give me their incite.

 

[flower]

Originally Posted by paulyt123
http:///forum/post/3160663
I would appreciate your advice. I currently have a 125 gallon tank. I have no corrals.
2 maroon clowns
1 orange shoulder tang
1 yellow tang
1 flame angel
1 koran angel
2 cleaner shrimp.
All the fish are juveniles but I am hoping to keep these fish for many years. Will I be able to add a racoon butterfly fish? I would like to look out a couple of years. Will these fish as adults with an adult racoon be too much? Of course the LFS tells me I have room for plenty more fish. I would like an unbiased opinion.
My filtration is 2 eheim classic canisters.
Large Aqua C remora hang on skimmer.
Penguin Bio wheel with 2 wheels I forgot what model it is.
Green killing machine 24w UV sterilizer.
Thank you to all that give me their incite.

It sort of depends on the type of fish you want to add. You could put a goby or other bottom dweller, all the fish you have listed are mid tank swimmers.

 

[crypt keeper]

I think you are done. Your fish will grow.

 

[aquaknight]

To be brutally honest, your filtration leaves a lot to be desired, and IMO is more the limiter then tank space. The Remora is really designed for a tank half the size, and the canisters aren't pretty helpful in terms of bioload.
In terms of bioload, I feel your at the limit. Ignoring filtration, I would be hesitate to add a Butterfly, they often get picked on by both tangs and angels. I forget how many times I've heard my "yellow tang killed my copperband." They really should be added before tangs or large angels.

 

[paulyt123]

Thank you so much for the info. What would you suggest would be a good addition to filtration for the bio load? I don't want to spend a lot more for another filter. Therefore what would be a good bio filter at a reasonable price?
By the way my tank is not drilled.
Thanks again

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/3160685
To be brutally honest, your filtration leaves a lot to be desired, and IMO is more the limiter then tank space. The Remora is really designed for a tank half the size, and the canisters aren't pretty helpful in terms of bioload.
In terms of bioload, I feel your at the limit. Ignoring filtration, I would be hesitate to add a Butterfly, they often get picked on by both tangs and angels. I forget how many times I've heard my "yellow tang killed my copperband." They really should be added before tangs or large angels.
I seldom disagree with AquaKnight; but I really don't think bio-load is a problem at all, assuming you have a fair amount of LR. If you can pick up a bigger skimmer, great--but you don't have a reef and I think the Remora is a whole lot better than no skimmer. Aerobic bacteria (to control ammonia/nitrite) will reproduce and colonize at an incredible rate; as long as they have the flow and surface area they need and the bio-load isn't increased too quickly. I probably wouldn't toss a butterfly into that tank either; but with a Raccoon, I think you have enough wiggle room in the tank's capacity to give it a shot if you want to. A little disclaimer; I'll admit to stocking fish-only tanks heavier than most.

 

[paulyt123]

Thanks for the help. I am not going with a butterfly do to your recommendation. I may pick up another filter if their is one you recommend that is at a good price, please let me know. If I buy another filter, then I will probably add 1 more fish. If you have any suggestions of the fish to add I would like your advice. If I don't add another filter, I won't add another fish. I will stay with the current filtration systems due to so far ammonia and nitrites are at zero.

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by paulyt123
http:///forum/post/3160747
Thanks for the help. I am not going with a butterfly do to your recommendation. I may pick up another filter if their is one you recommend that is at a good price, please let me know. If I buy another filter, then I will probably add 1 more fish. If you have any suggestions of the fish to add I would like your advice. If I don't add another filter, I won't add another fish. I will stay with the current filtration systems due to so far ammonia and nitrites are at zero.
With ammonia and nitrite at zero, your bio-filtration is doing fine. IMO, one medium fish isn't going to change that. Are you watching nitrates? Nitrates won't generally hurt fish, but your cleaner shrimp won't like them too high...keep up with water changes and keep your filter media clean and your nitrates (depending on your LR supply) should stay under 80ppm or so--OK for fish, but high for inverts. I'm a little confused on the filter question. Your Remora is protein skimmer, not usually considered a filter, like your bio-wheel and canisters. With all your fish, a bigger skimmer would help. Always buy the biggest skimmer you can...try Craig's list. Even if you could find another Remora at a good price, it would help. I really like Remoras as an easy, HOB, skimmer.

 

[paulyt123]

Thanks for the info, it was very helpful. I will focus on getting an additional protein skimmer.

 

[aquaknight]

Originally Posted by srfisher17
http:///forum/post/3160741
I seldom disagree with AquaKnight; but I really don't think bio-load is a problem at all, assuming you have a fair amount of LR. If you can pick up a bigger skimmer, great--but you don't have a reef and I think the Remora is a whole lot better than no skimmer. Aerobic bacteria (to control ammonia/nitrite) will reproduce and colonize at an incredible rate; as long as they have the flow and surface area they need and the bio-load isn't increased too quickly. I probably wouldn't toss a butterfly into that tank either; but with a Raccoon, I think you have enough wiggle room in the tank's capacity to give it a shot if you want to. A little disclaimer; I'll admit to stocking fish-only tanks heavier than most.
True, but where's the fail-safe? Will this tank setup support a mini-crash? What if one of the support creature populations dies off? Bristleworm populations are well known to raise and then fall back now to normal. Can this setup support a bunch of bristles dying off? Or just a feeding accident, a table shrimp goes unnoticed, a cup of pellets falls in, etc. It's like parking a car on a hill. Just because the brakes barely hold the car, doesn't mean it won't wind up at the bottom. Someone bumps into it, etc...
Though in hindsight, I do agree, a single medium fish isn't a tipping point. Though IMHO the tank could potentially be a on a slow skid. One of those "my fish are acting funny, lemme test, oh $*#% amm. is .25" where things exponentially get quickly worse. Bacteria does repopulate incredibly fast, but even with slow additions, there's a maximum, and the fact filtration is on the lower end, doesn't help. A basic wet/dry would do leagues of help. Remora's are decent skimmers just not up to 125gal. Due to the fact it's a sumpless 125gal and budget is an issue, I would agree in looking for another Remora or the new CPR Aero Force Protein Skimmer (preferred).

 

[zmydust]

Originally Posted by paulyt123
http:///forum/post/3161041
Thanks for the info, it was very helpful. I will focus on getting an additional protein skimmer.
Have you considered adding a sump to your setup?
I'm currently only running a 35 gallon tank (which is on the verge of "nano" in this hobby) and I feel that anything over 55 should include a sump for so many different reasons. You'll be free to get a stronger skimmer, add more to your total gallons, hide your equipment, etc. etc. etc.

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/3161072
True, but where's the fail-safe? Will this tank setup support a mini-crash? What if one of the support creature populations dies off? Bristleworm populations are well known to raise and then fall back now to normal. Can this setup support a bunch of bristles dying off? Or just a feeding accident, a table shrimp goes unnoticed, a cup of pellets falls in, etc. It's like parking a car on a hill. Just because the brakes barely hold the car, doesn't mean it won't wind up at the bottom. Someone bumps into it, etc...
Though in hindsight, I do agree, a single medium fish isn't a tipping point. Though IMHO the tank could potentially be a on a slow skid. One of those "my fish are acting funny, lemme test, oh $*#% amm. is .25" where things exponentially get quickly worse. Bacteria does repopulate incredibly fast, but even with slow additions, there's a maximum, and the fact filtration is on the lower end, doesn't help. A basic wet/dry would do leagues of help. Remora's are decent skimmers just not up to 125gal. Due to the fact it's a sumpless 125gal and budget is an issue, I would agree in looking for another Remora or the new CPR Aero Force Protein Skimmer (preferred).
I think "bio-load' is one of the toughest areas in the hobby to define. There is no absolute formula and so many variables that all we have is opinions, a little research, and our own experience. I haven't had any sort of ammonia detection in so long that I'm sure it affects my opinion. If I had an unexplainable "crash"; I'm sure I'd be singing a different tune. I do think that not shocking a tank with a lot of additional load at once is more important than the total load of the tank. When I raised FW Angels to support my SW habit; I could keep so many quarter-size angelfish in a 55 that you could barely see the back of the tank and my only filtration was a few home made sponge filters. BTW; anyone know how those ugly and wall-to-wall fish Asian tanks hold so many fish? I don't. Maybe a 6' tall fluidized bed filter.

 

[paulyt123]

I don't want to spend too much more money. I think ( I know) my wife will get upset if I go ahead and buy a sump, then a big insump skimmer. I will keep looking on craig's list and if I find a a hang on skimmer cheap I will get it, otherwise no biggie, christmas is around the corner I can wait until then.

 

[louti]

A sump doesnt have to be expensive. Get a cheap tank (a 30 long or even a 55 would be great). Add a little rock and some macro algae to it and you would have a much better setup, imo.

 

[aquaknight]

Originally Posted by srfisher17
http:///forum/post/3161197
I think "bio-load' is one of the toughest areas in the hobby to define. There is no absolute formula and so many variables that all we have is opinions, a little research, and our own experience. I haven't had any sort of ammonia detection in so long that I'm sure it affects my opinion. If I had an unexplainable "crash"; I'm sure I'd be singing a different tune. I do think that not shocking a tank with a lot of additional load at once is more important than the total load of the tank. When I raised FW Angels to support my SW habit; I could keep so many quarter-size angelfish in a 55 that you could barely see the back of the tank and my only filtration was a few home made sponge filters. BTW; anyone know how those ugly and wall-to-wall fish Asian tanks hold so many fish? I don't. Maybe a 6' tall fluidized bed filter.
Very true. Just think if there was a formula, how easy things would be...
Great point on the Asian tanks. I have no idea as well. I would imagine heavy water changes would play a roll...
Originally Posted by paulyt123
http:///forum/post/3161237
I don't want to spend too much more money. I think ( I know) my wife will get upset if I go ahead and buy a sump, then a big insump skimmer. I will keep looking on craig's list and if I find a a hang on skimmer cheap I will get it, otherwise no biggie, christmas is around the corner I can wait until then.
In all honestly if your long-term goal is just to keep the tank only fish, I would probably say consider going old-school and look into a wet-dry sump setup. You probably can find one on c-list or the bay of e, for the same price as a skimmer.
As sort of the things mentioned, the concern is the earlier part of the nitrication process. Turning ammonia into nitrite, and then nitrite into nitrate. Bioballs used in a wet/dry (aka trickle) filter are very effective at this. Unfortunately bioballs can't complete the nitrification process and turn nitrates into nitrogen gas (harmless). That part requires anaerobic bacteria, which bioballs can not house. They can house mass quantities of aerobic bacteria which the first twp parts require. As SR mentioned, ammonia and nitrite are very toxic to fish. Fish can withstand higher levels of nitrate then inverts/coral, so they are of less concern.
Hopefully that wasn't too much. In addition to the wet/dry, you'll need an overflow box, and a return pump. All of much, again, if shopped 'smartly' can be had for less then a skimmer.
Originally Posted by louti
http:///forum/post/3161265
A sump doesnt have to be expensive. Get a cheap tank (a 30 long or even a 55 would be great). Add a little rock and some macro algae to it and you would have a much better setup, imo.
True on the bigger is better sump, but one thing to consider is if the tank is running, depending on the stand it just might not work to get a 55gal in the stand without having to completely teardown the tank.