Can I remove.......

[nas19320]

I have a 55 gallon tank that has an undergravel filter that has been running as a FOWLR for 2 years. It only has 25 lbs of live rock and 4 clownfish. I wanna add more LR to the tank and more fish but I don't want the UG filter to become a problem. Can I remove the plates? I have crushed coral as a substrate. If I get rid of the UG filter what would be a good filter to run?

 

[pigeoncreek1]

I would remove the UG filter and the crushed coral, then add about 4" of aragonite sand(deep sand bed). Crushed coral is known to harbor fish waste and excess food which can lead to algae problems and unstable water chemistry.
Adding the extra LR is a great idea, it will definately boost your biological filtration!
As for filtration, the cheapest way you could go is a power filter such as an aquaclear 300 or 500. You could also go with a canister filter, although they are more expensive and harder to clean. Regardless of filter choice, you should add a few powerheads for circulation and a protein skimmer.
If you have a Quarantine tank, it wouldn't be a bad Idea to remove the fish while making the change. Once you disturb the UGF and the CC, your water parameters may be unstable for a few days. If not, mix up some fresh saltwater and be ready to make some water changes if you levels go out of whack.
Good Luck!

 

[cboyfan2020]

i agree you should remove the UG filter. Its more of a pain then anything and sand bed and LR provide much better filtration. You would be hard pressed to find somebody using UG filters in a SW tank.

 

[nas19320]

Ok how much does aragonite sand usually cost and how much would I need for a standard 55 gal tank. I already have a large hang on filter and a couple powerheads laying around so I will use them. Any advice on a good protein skimmer that isn't gonna be overkill price wise. Thanks for you help.

 

[thomas712]

Agaronite sand can be an expensive $22.00 to $25.00 per 40 or 50 pound bag, Dry. Or It can be as low as $4.00 bucks a bag for southdown tropical playsand, or cheaper, Trick is you have to live on the east coast or close to get it. Quickcrete playsand can work to if you find the right one.
I had a 55 for years with Crushed Coral, for a few of those years it had an Undergraval filter, piece of junk . Heavy maintanance. The poorest of filters for saltwater. If you over feed your fish at all in a CC/UGF type tank its nothing but problems. Put live rock on your CC/UGF and you create dead spots, more problems. The list goes on. I've been through these problems and more.
I couldn't agree more with changing it.
Thomas

 

[nas19320]

I live in PA so tomorrow I will see if I can find some southdown sand around here. If not I have a local fish store that has all types of aragonite sand. How many pounds do I need for an ideal bed. Also whats the optimum grain size? I found four different types of sand, one having a grainsize of 0.2-1.2 mm, and the others are coarser (1-7, 1-17 and 5-10 mm). I'm interested in the 1-17 mm size because its says that it will allow burrowing organisms to construct tunnels without collapsing.

 

[pigeoncreek1]

Nas,
You should be able to find southdown at your local Home Depot. I noticed by you user name that you are near Lancaster. There is a big sale going on this weekend at a LFS there. I'm taking a road trip myself to pick up some supplies , fish and a skimmer! If you want info, drop me a line.
pigeoncreek@attbi.com

 

[nas19320]

I sent you an email pigeon creek.

 

[thomas712]

1-17 mm is large size, gravel even, stones. You can use it but IMO the sugar size granuals and smaller are better.
If you were using something like southdown then you have a sand that ranged from very fine to silt or from 1/8mm in size to 1/256mm. Fine sand is around 1/8mm to 1/4mm. Medium from 1/4mm to 1/2mm. Personally I would not choose to go larger than the 1/2mm in my opinion.
Thomas

 

[nas19320]

Ok I got 200 lbs of southdown from home depot today so that should be more than enough. A few questions before I go ahead and do the switch:
1. Should I wash the sand first?
2. Do I need to put any structure down under the sand like small base rocks or screening?
Beside that is there anything else I should know before I go ahead and do this?
I guess I should also somehow seed the sand with my old CC right.

 

[sal t. nutz]

Don't wash the sand.
Put it right on the bottom of the tank, nothing else needed.
Put 25% of you CC in pantyhose and let it sit in the tank for a few weeks.

 

[broncofish]

Nothing underneath, don't rinse but your tank will be a milky mess til the sand settles. I agree with the panty hose...or buy a 10lb bag of live sand($20)

 

[nas19320]

Should I run the filter and powerheads or wait until everything settles? Also whats the best way to position the powerheads. I have two.

 

[cboyfan2020]

I put eggcrate under my rock work then fill in around the rocks just to get more anaerobic spots fish cant touch but thats just me. Rinsing the SD usually ends up washing away the really fine particles you want to provide the oxygen free enviroment. I think a lot of people point their powerheads ttowards each other or have one high and one low behind the rocks.

 

[eden]

Hi Nas19320
I am also preparing to remove my UGF, but I am afraid to. Did you remove yours?? What sand did you add? Does all seem well now?? Thanks!

 

[thomas712]

Eden - Let me tell you why you should pull your UGF
Just my OPINION that I have shared frequently.
1. Frequent water changes to try to get the ditrus and nitrates out.
2. If you put live rock on it you will build up more dead ditrus spots that will pump out more nitrates in you system. This just makes them simply non reef compatible. They were meant for a crushed coral bottom and are no good with sand.
3. You run the risk of Carbon dioxide poisoning that builds up underneath.
4. Although it can help with the bioload it is only low bio load friendly.
5. With what can seep out from underneath the algea blooms can be spectacular leading to what is called New Tank Syndrome even if you think your tank is seasoned, and if you do not vaccum well you will simply reintroduce the waste back into the water colum. This can reek (he he) havoc on your water chemistry and your PH.
6. Even though you use the best strongest powerheads on it, it will just pull the waste and ditrus down into the substrate traping it till it decays and fouls your water or waits to be removed by you and the vaccum tube. You will find that your water turns yellow much more than other system. Much better to use sand and good water flow to keep the ditrus in suspension in the water to be removed by the protein skimmer or machanical filtraition.
7. No matter how you slice it the UGF is just a ditrus trap. If anything deserves the name nitrate factory it is the UGF. Chop it up and use it in place of bio balls.
They were all the rage for freshwater tanks in the 50's 60's and 70's and are still good for freshwater tanks. But they really have no place in a reef tank. With all the other forms of filtration available UGF is a poor choice, maybe even a bad one.
I would suggest that you also get a couple of saddle filters like the penguin 400's to use as machanical filtration,they would help in keeping the surface water churning, the fluval is ok but IME also traps waste and is really under powered. Add to this a hang on skimmer and you will be better off. Don't ge me wrong about the canister filter, in some applications they have there uses, they are great for stuffing full of carbon and PO4 removers, and work well as a syphon wand to suck up stuff like algea that you have loosed up or for sucking up flat worms.
Thomas

 

[cboyfan2020]

Amen thomas, eden just do it. you will be very glad you did.

 

[nas19320]

Hi Eden. My switch went great thanks to everyones advice here. I used south down play sand and made about a 5 in DSB. I like it alot and am very pleased with the look of it. The water was slightly cloudy for a day but it didn't seem to harm the few fish I have.

 

[eden]

Hi Thomas - Sorry for the delay in my reply. I have been very sick for the last week. Now that I am on the mend, I have read your reply. It seems like I need to ditch the entire setup and start over. From what you said it explains the problem I have been having with weekly algae blooms. I have nowhere to get southdown sand as I am in Nor. Cal. I also am not sure what a Penguin 400 is. I have looked on several web sites, including this one and do not see it. Can you point me to one??
In any case, let's say I yank the UGF, dig out all the CC, remove the Fluval, add sand, put a bunch of CC back in stockings to seed, and a Penguine. Will my tank cycle again? Should I remove my fish?
Thanks!

 

[thomas712]

Glad to hear your feeling better
Your tank is still young, what only 3 months old if that? You may still be experiencing brown diatioms or other algea blooms, this would still be concidered normal for a new tank.
Also if I recall correctly this is a fish only tank? or did you have live rock as well?
What is your current filtration other than the UGF?
The Penguin 400 is a power filter or saddle filter that hangs on the back of your tank, I think even Meijer or Walmart carries them, you just use the filter cartriges that insert inside them.
List your other equipment for me.
I would strongly recommend that you pull the UGF, but you can still make this tank go with the Crushed coral if you wish, sand is most definatly better. In most cases that I have heard of and Experienced myself crushed coral although it does trap waste and food that lead to nitrates, what collects under the plates of the UGF is far worse. In many cases you can't always syphon what is there out. It is even more easy to syphon just plaine ole crushed coral without a UGF.
Yes I would remove the fish and hold them in a bucket with a heater for a while even a simple air stone for some water movement, or if it is warm enough in NO CAL you can do without any heater. Have some water change water ready, if you find that there is a lot of crud under your filter. All depends on how much you have fed over the last three months.
You may indeed find that you will have a mini cycle, but if your fish are hardy they can survive it, if you don't think they will they can still live in the bucket for a while or other tote or container with heater and circulation.
Thomas