joe's reefer
Member
you could but u shouldnt because its hardy to take care of,live sand basically cleans itself and with live sand you have a better variety of inverts and fish(like gobys)
Can I use crushed coral in reef tank?
- Thread starter nj27000
- Start date
reeflooker
Member
I mentioned to my lfs guy that I wanted to start a dsb 4"+. He said to go easy on the thickness because the sand will release gas(which I assume he meant nitrios oxide) which will kill fish. Is this true. Anyone have dead fish from a dsb???
hockeyplyr
Member
I just changed and posted what I did
S
starfishjackedme
Guest
I have a 200 gal with a 4"CC bed and a 55 gal sump with a 6" playsand bed. I have 180 lbs of LR and ZERO nitrates, will not register on any test kit. I have a Berlin XL skimmer and no other filtration. This tank has been up for a year.
My CC bed is loaded with pods and worms about 2 - 2 1/2" down. The sand bed in my sump only has critters about 1/2" if that. I would have to say that my CC bed has much more critters per square inch than the sand bed. I like both, but I NEVER vacuum either bed. I like the CC because it is a solid foundation for the reef and I don't plan on changing anything.
I think a lot of people have fallen victim to advertising campaigns of carrib sea, etc for the higher $ bed.
My CC bed is loaded with pods and worms about 2 - 2 1/2" down. The sand bed in my sump only has critters about 1/2" if that. I would have to say that my CC bed has much more critters per square inch than the sand bed. I like both, but I NEVER vacuum either bed. I like the CC because it is a solid foundation for the reef and I don't plan on changing anything.
I think a lot of people have fallen victim to advertising campaigns of carrib sea, etc for the higher $ bed.
fshhub
Active Member
well, as far as victims go, i built a dsb for a 29 and a 55 for, $11.61, so i really doubt that is it, cc one bag, which was not near enough for mmy 40 gallon, cost me 29$ for one bag(which was also made by carib sea, might i add)
and hockey player, i have had cc that i had nitrates with readings always of 60 plus, normally around 80, now in our 75, NO SKIMMER, i can't get them over 20, normally in 5 to 10 range(no skimmer or filter used), our nitrates finally did come down in our 40, but after i changed to a dsb, there you herard it(not one bit is fiction either, if you need to look through old posts, i have said it for quite some time)
sea wraith, i gotta ask, no spike? who ever mentioned a spike, what do they maintain at?, and you also mentioned a bit more filtration, alot more than needed with sand, as for the other post, about havein cc and a sump with sand, lets see you also have rock, a sand bed in the sump and what else, oh yeah a skimmer, all i ever said is that with cc you neeed some extra assistance, maintenance, like cleaning and or a wet dry or a skimmer or rock and so on, which is what i have ben saying, it needs more help than a dsb, BUT i also said that there has been success witht hem, i never once said there wasn't, i have seen systems with cc that have been successful, and it seems that the only ones who are looking to start up are those defending cc(yet they say they are dawning the flame retardants and such), when ever sand is mentioned
back to the question, i would not use the 2 mixed, i have and won't again, and if it were new, i would start with sand again instead of cc-
and hockey player, i have had cc that i had nitrates with readings always of 60 plus, normally around 80, now in our 75, NO SKIMMER, i can't get them over 20, normally in 5 to 10 range(no skimmer or filter used), our nitrates finally did come down in our 40, but after i changed to a dsb, there you herard it(not one bit is fiction either, if you need to look through old posts, i have said it for quite some time)
sea wraith, i gotta ask, no spike? who ever mentioned a spike, what do they maintain at?, and you also mentioned a bit more filtration, alot more than needed with sand, as for the other post, about havein cc and a sump with sand, lets see you also have rock, a sand bed in the sump and what else, oh yeah a skimmer, all i ever said is that with cc you neeed some extra assistance, maintenance, like cleaning and or a wet dry or a skimmer or rock and so on, which is what i have ben saying, it needs more help than a dsb, BUT i also said that there has been success witht hem, i never once said there wasn't, i have seen systems with cc that have been successful, and it seems that the only ones who are looking to start up are those defending cc(yet they say they are dawning the flame retardants and such), when ever sand is mentioned
back to the question, i would not use the 2 mixed, i have and won't again, and if it were new, i would start with sand again instead of cc-
striker
Member
I've used both ls and cc and personaly would personaly never use cc again. I like the look of ls and have tons more critters in the tank. I have to attribute my success so far with the extra ls and lr that I use in my system this time around. My nitrates are at .10 and have no problems whatsoever with nuissance algae. I have 3 lfs that use cc and all of them have tons of brown and hair algae problem in their tanks. Of course this is a personal decision and I'm sure there are other factors involved but ever since I've been in this hobby the only people I've heard advocating cc are store owners and people who never made the change to sand. Another thing that I've never heard of is someone saying that they are converting their live sand to crushed coral and adding an undergravel filter. Hmmmmmmmmmm. That alone has to tell you something about this so called debate.
kris walker
Active Member
My last post to this debate, I promise.
Some have had CC, and nitrates went through the roof. Others have had CC, and virtually zero nitrates for them. All observations are significant--no one is lieing. Physics doesn't change between reefers, so there are obviously other factors that we are not all mentioning when comparing experiences. So the bottom line, to me, seems to be there is no true blanket statement like "CC is a nitrate factory". CC seems to be associated with high nitrates for some people, but not others. Why? We will probably never know because there are so many factors. I have no experience with DSB's, so I can't comment on them other than they look nicer than CC IMO, and if I were starting from scratch, I would go with a DSB.
Cheers all, and thanks for the lively debate,
kris
Some have had CC, and nitrates went through the roof. Others have had CC, and virtually zero nitrates for them. All observations are significant--no one is lieing. Physics doesn't change between reefers, so there are obviously other factors that we are not all mentioning when comparing experiences. So the bottom line, to me, seems to be there is no true blanket statement like "CC is a nitrate factory". CC seems to be associated with high nitrates for some people, but not others. Why? We will probably never know because there are so many factors. I have no experience with DSB's, so I can't comment on them other than they look nicer than CC IMO, and if I were starting from scratch, I would go with a DSB.
Cheers all, and thanks for the lively debate,
kris
fshhub
Active Member
dat's ok sea wraith, i was just wondering b/c you did say spike, wasn't sure if you meant spike in the true sense, like it sky rocketed on you
so anyhow, i am not battling, i do agree again that cc does work, i jsut have had better successs personally with a dsb and nothing at all except for good circulation, no sump skimmer filter of any type(yes lr thaough), my powerheads do not have prefilters either
and i will say this one more time, dsb's do NOT have to be EXPENSIVE, i am building 2 more right now, for a friends tanks, and the sand and shrimp costs us about 14 $ total!(this is a 20 longa nd a 55 rect tank)$14!(a littel over or under half the price of one bag of cc, not expensive), the other critters will come from the lr(jsut like if i used cc) or a det kit, if they decide to not use lr(which again, i would use with cc too( you ned that fauna and flora)
so anyhow, i am not battling, i do agree again that cc does work, i jsut have had better successs personally with a dsb and nothing at all except for good circulation, no sump skimmer filter of any type(yes lr thaough), my powerheads do not have prefilters either
and i will say this one more time, dsb's do NOT have to be EXPENSIVE, i am building 2 more right now, for a friends tanks, and the sand and shrimp costs us about 14 $ total!(this is a 20 longa nd a 55 rect tank)$14!(a littel over or under half the price of one bag of cc, not expensive), the other critters will come from the lr(jsut like if i used cc) or a det kit, if they decide to not use lr(which again, i would use with cc too( you ned that fauna and flora)
volitan
Member
Ok, I have to chime in. I don't have any experience with a DSB, but I do have a couple of years experience with a cc bed with 30 lbs of LS mixed in. I have never had any problems with nitrates, and I have never done any maintenance whatsoever on the CC bed. The only filtration I have besides the LR, is an Emperor 400 (no sump, refugium, or protein skimmer). My tank is proof that you can have a healthy, thriving tank with a 'no maintenance' CC bed.
I originally chose the CC over a DSB for aesthetical reasons. I don't like the look of a sand tank. Sand coming up the first 3 to 4 inches of glass in a tank does not look good to me.
I don't have any intentions of making the change to a DSB ever. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I originally chose the CC over a DSB for aesthetical reasons. I don't like the look of a sand tank. Sand coming up the first 3 to 4 inches of glass in a tank does not look good to me.
I don't have any intentions of making the change to a DSB ever. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
kris
Member
Oh where to start?????????
First Kris--you and I think alot alike (maybe it's the name) I too get tried of hearing people blame their nitrates on their cc beds or their canisters or anything else for that matter. It's simply not the case IMHO. Obviously there are still plenty of us who use it successfully. Although this is the first time i have heard it being used without ever cleaning it.
There are SO MANY other factors people don't want to look at because it's easier to blame something. Anyway here are a few thought of mine
A cc bed will become just as "alive" as any sand bed as far as colonization of bacteria and "critters".Trust me I find plenty of those each time I clean.
There are plenty of oxygen free zones in my bed and also I too believe in the lr. Also after time some cc becomes sand itself after enough moving cleaning and fish digging. There is probably a 1/4 under my plate. I used to think that was bad now I'm not so sure.
A dsb is not always going to be the perfect choice for everyone-so before automatically telling anyone to switch ,they should consider this persons personal tank. I for example will never get one because I have a very aggressive set up and therefor am unable to keep a cleaning crew of anykind. With the big eaters I have there would be no one to pick up and you can't exactly go vacuuming your preciuos dsb.
You guys who automatically tell people to go switch to dsb should perhaps at least MENTION to them the inherint risks involved--I consider my cc bed to be a huge part of my bio-filtration system, to go messing with and removing it even a little at a time I will risk my tank falling apart and losing some fish-i and they may not be willing to risk that.
Alot of good info and experiences have been on this post--thanks for all the insight guys.
posts like these are why
I LOVE this board
First Kris--you and I think alot alike (maybe it's the name) I too get tried of hearing people blame their nitrates on their cc beds or their canisters or anything else for that matter. It's simply not the case IMHO. Obviously there are still plenty of us who use it successfully. Although this is the first time i have heard it being used without ever cleaning it.
There are SO MANY other factors people don't want to look at because it's easier to blame something. Anyway here are a few thought of mine
A cc bed will become just as "alive" as any sand bed as far as colonization of bacteria and "critters".Trust me I find plenty of those each time I clean.
There are plenty of oxygen free zones in my bed and also I too believe in the lr. Also after time some cc becomes sand itself after enough moving cleaning and fish digging. There is probably a 1/4 under my plate. I used to think that was bad now I'm not so sure.
A dsb is not always going to be the perfect choice for everyone-so before automatically telling anyone to switch ,they should consider this persons personal tank. I for example will never get one because I have a very aggressive set up and therefor am unable to keep a cleaning crew of anykind. With the big eaters I have there would be no one to pick up and you can't exactly go vacuuming your preciuos dsb.
You guys who automatically tell people to go switch to dsb should perhaps at least MENTION to them the inherint risks involved--I consider my cc bed to be a huge part of my bio-filtration system, to go messing with and removing it even a little at a time I will risk my tank falling apart and losing some fish-i and they may not be willing to risk that.
Alot of good info and experiences have been on this post--thanks for all the insight guys.
posts like these are why
I LOVE this board