Can Someone help out with drum brakes??

posiden

posiden

Active Member
My car has drum brakes. I don't know all the inns and outs to drum brakes. I replaced almost all the hardware, I did the wheel cylinders, springs, shoes, and retaining clips, and new drums. So I still have the old adjusters and backing plates.
The thing I am having the hardest time with is the adjustment. The first adjustment I did was unsuccessful. So I spoke with a mechanic and he told me how to set them for break in, he called it arching. Well I did that and now it is adjusting time. I turn the adjusters and the wheel gets tight, then I step on the brake pedal and they are loose again. WTH.

Do I need to keep turning the adjusters and stepping on the brake pedal till they stop getting loose, then back them off a turn or two?
 
socal57che

socal57che

Active Member
Originally Posted by Posiden
http:///forum/post/2996213
both. yes it is a VW. but that shouldn't matter right?
Yes and no.
Basics are the same, but not all systems are the same.
For instance, automatic adjusters. Some cars use a cable and ratchet. (yours probably does not)
 
posiden

posiden

Active Member
Originally Posted by socal57che
http:///forum/post/2996216
Yes and no.
Basics are the same, but not all systems are the same.
I see your point. Uhm, maybe you can tell me about the system you know.
My master cylinder has two outputs. one for the rear and one for the front. Also yea I don't have auto adjusters.
 
posiden

posiden

Active Member
Cable and ratchet, is that for the auto adjust? I have wheel cylinders all around. All hydraulic
 
socal57che

socal57che

Active Member
Originally Posted by Posiden
http:///forum/post/2996219
I see your point. Uhm, maybe you can tell me about the system you know.
My master cylinder has two outputs. one for the rear and one for the front.
I know both, but need to know what model VW you have in order to start.
If it's a Beetle, you should not have auto adjuster cables, but require occasional manual adjustments by hand.
The very first thing I would check is the adjuster. Be sure it is installed correctly and that the lock engages. (usually a spring that rests against the adjuster wheel)
 
socal57che

socal57che

Active Member
Originally Posted by Posiden
http:///forum/post/2996223
Cable and ratchet, is that for the auto adjust? I have wheel cylinders all around. All hydraulic
Yes, all drum systems have wheel cylinders. Some auto adjust...some you have to manually adjust.
Is this a Beetle or a Super Beetle?
Hydraulics are for stopping.(shoe engagement)
Adjusters are for clearance to drum, which affects brake pedal height.
 
posiden

posiden

Active Member
Originally Posted by socal57che
http:///forum/post/2996224
I know both, but need to know what model VW you have in order to start.
If it's a Beetle, you should not have auto adjuster cables, but require occasional manual adjustments by hand.
The very first thing I would check is the adjuster. Be sure it is installed correctly and that the lock engages. (usually a spring that rests against the adjuster wheel)
Yes a super beetle. Right, I am in need of the manual adjustment.
Yes the adjusters are in right and have the latching device on them.
 
socal57che

socal57che

Active Member
Originally Posted by Posiden
http:///forum/post/2996230
Yes a super beetle. Right, I am in need of the manual adjustment.
Yes the adjusters are in right and have the latching device on them.
In that case there is no reason they should back off. Are all 4 sets of shoes doing this or is there one wheel in particular that is doing it?
Did the brake shoes come with a short shoe and a long shoe, or did all the shoes have the same amount of friction material?
If there was a short shoe it goes toward the front of the car. (or counter-clockwise from the wheel cylinder if one shoe is on top and one on bottom)
This is the self energizing shoe and if it is in the wrong place you will have poor brake performance.
 
posiden

posiden

Active Member
It is all four wheels. After I did the first adjustment which the guy called arching. It has worked perfectly. But now that I have to adjust them I am getting this. I thought it was just a matter of a couple of turns for the maintenance adjust.
Maybe I let them go to long before this adjustment. That's why they are needing a lot of adjustment.
They do finally get tight but it takes a lot of going back and forth between the adjusters and the brake pedal. Do the shoes move out evenly and stay out. It seems like the wheel cylinder would run out of movement that way.
 
socal57che

socal57che

Active Member
Originally Posted by Posiden
http:///forum/post/2996242
It is all four wheels. After I did the first adjustment which the guy called arching. It has worked perfectly. But now that I have to adjust them I am getting this. I thought it was just a matter of a couple of turns for the maintenance adjust.
Maybe I let them go to long before this adjustment. That's why they are needing a lot of adjustment.
They do finally get tight but it takes a lot of going back and forth between the adjusters and the brake pedal. Do the shoes move out evenly and stay out. It seems like the wheel cylinder would run out of movement that way.
To adjust drum brakes you turn the adjuster until the shoes clamp the drum and then back them off until the drum turns freely. You will need to firmly press the brake pedal to realign the shoes after each adjustment. I like to do the adjustment with the drums off, then reinstall them and firmly press the brake pedal to align the shoes and retest.
The adjustment will not exceed the capbility of the wheel cylinder to engage the shoes. If it does, there is an installation problem, which I doubt you have because you have been driving the car.
If the drums were worn, there could have been a lot of break in required to fit the arch of the new shoes to the worn diameter of the old drums. (not an issue if you replaced the drums)
 
posiden

posiden

Active Member
Originally Posted by socal57che
http:///forum/post/2996249
To adjust drum brakes you turn the adjuster until the shoes clamp the drum and then back them off until the drum turns freely. You will need to firmly press the brae pedal to realign the shoes after each adjustment. I like to do the adjustment with the drums off, then reinstall them and firmly press the brake pedal to align the shoes and retest.
The adjustment will not exceed the capbility of the wheel cylinder to engage the shoes. If it does, there is an installation problem, which I doubt you have because you have been driving the car.
So pressing the brake pedal after turning the adjuster is normal. That makes some sense that it will realign the shoes. I am new to this, so I am figuring this out as I go.
Well I must turn in for the night. Work tomorrow.
Thank you for your help, I feel a bit better about what I had to do with them today. I hope the wheels don't fall off tomorrow.
 
socal57che

socal57che

Active Member
Originally Posted by Posiden
http:///forum/post/2996253
So pressing the brake pedal after turning the adjuster is normal. That makes some sense that it will realign the shoes. I am new to this, so I am figuring this out as I go.
Yes, this is normal procedure.
Originally Posted by Posiden
http:///forum/post/2996253
Well I must turn in for the night. Work tomorrow.
Thank you for your help, I feel a bit better about what I had to do with them today. I hope the wheels don't fall off tomorrow.
You're very welcome...and I hope the wheels don't fall off as well.
 
posiden

posiden

Active Member
Thank you for the links. I have two manuals on the car and neither one says to press the pedal to realign the shoes. So that's where I was getting confused as I wasn't getting the results I should have.
The wheels didn't fall off on me but, I do have the shoes a little to far out cause they drag just a bit. I can feel it after a stop and I go to take off. Since they were so far out of adjustment I wonder if I should leave them alone to re-arch themselves to the drums?
 
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