can you use home depot sand?

W

wbradenpt

Guest
setting up a fowlr tank. plan on putting sand on bottom for asthetic purposes only. can you use cheap sand from home depot for this purpose? for some reason i'm thinking that some types of sand may have chemicals or something that needs to be avoided. any suggestions would be appreciated.
 

realmling

New Member
If you just want sand for having sand, some of the stuff at Home Depot will work fine.
HOWEVER, let me share with you the most recent experience with such as the husband and I just set up a tank for our brackish community. (In other words...learn from our little experience and your's will go much much smoother)
We purchased the 50lb bag of Quickcrete play sand (it's just a few more cents than the bag of construction sand sitting right next to it ... but it is slighty better sorted for the most part)
1 - Do a dry sift first

Get yourself a cheapy metal mesh kitchen strainer (or some scrap wood and some window screen and make yourself a screener box) and sift the sand to remove any stray elements of metal and other odd foreign objects that end up in your batch of sand.
2 - Rinse the sand
3 - Rinse the sand
4 - Rinse the sand
5 - Rinse the sand

If it's warm enough outside (Wyoming in winter is the worst time to attmept such...) get yourself some buckets (large plastic mixing bowls work great too), the hose, and spend a lot of time rinsing the very fine silty dust out of your sand. Rinse it in smaller batches to make it easier, working your fingers through the sand with the water running into the bowl/bucket/whatever. The larger grains will be left behind, and the super fine particles will wash over the sides.
Once you've rinsed everything very very well, put it in your empty tank. One website we found (after the fact mind you) mentions putting a layer of normal printer/copier paper on top of the sand to help avoid the water messing things up...and even still add the water s-l-o-w-l-y.
Don't worry about treating this first batch of water with anything, depending on how much particulate didn't make it out when you rinsed, you may need to to a partial (or full) water change after letting a filter run for a couple days. The larger particles will settle, but you may still end up with the very fine grained stuff happily floating around. The rule here is...if you can't see the wall behind the tank, the sand wasn't rinsed enough.
Hope that helps!
 

tangwhispr

Member

Originally Posted by Realmling
http:///forum/post/2460252
If you just want sand for having sand, some of the stuff at Home Depot will work fine.
HOWEVER, let me share with you the most recent experience with such as the husband and I just set up a tank for our brackish community. (In other words...learn from our little experience and your's will go much much smoother)
We purchased the 50lb bag of Quickcrete play sand (it's just a few more cents than the bag of construction sand sitting right next to it ... but it is slighty better sorted for the most part)
1 - Do a dry sift first

Get yourself a cheapy metal mesh kitchen strainer (or some scrap wood and some window screen and make yourself a screener box) and sift the sand to remove any stray elements of metal and other odd foreign objects that end up in your batch of sand.
2 - Rinse the sand
3 - Rinse the sand
4 - Rinse the sand
5 - Rinse the sand

If it's warm enough outside (Wyoming in winter is the worst time to attmept such...) get yourself some buckets (large plastic mixing bowls work great too), the hose, and spend a lot of time rinsing the very fine silty dust out of your sand. Rinse it in smaller batches to make it easier, working your fingers through the sand with the water running into the bowl/bucket/whatever. The larger grains will be left behind, and the super fine particles will wash over the sides.
Once you've rinsed everything very very well, put it in your empty tank. One website we found (after the fact mind you) mentions putting a layer of normal printer/copier paper on top of the sand to help avoid the water messing things up...and even still add the water s-l-o-w-l-y.
Don't worry about treating this first batch of water with anything, depending on how much particulate didn't make it out when you rinsed, you may need to to a partial (or full) water change after letting a filter run for a couple days. The larger particles will settle, but you may still end up with the very fine grained stuff happily floating around. The rule here is...if you can't see the wall behind the tank, the sand wasn't rinsed enough.
Hope that helps!
Please do some more research before making recomendations that aren't really correct..First off you want to find sand that is manufactured by Old Castle or Southdown. This may be a hard task depending on your location. A lot of different places carry these types of sand such as Home depot, Lowes, Wal-Mart and many other hardware stores, however not all of there locations carry the same products and it might take some time and driving around before you find a location that does. Quick Crete sand will not be manufactured by old castle or Southdown so avoid there products, they will be silica based. If your local Home Depot store carries sand I would suggest starting there. The sand you are looking for is Garden Basics Play Sand. Its Bright white in color and liked by many fellow reefers. The way to test non-aquatic sand is called the vinegar test. The vinegar test has been applied to garden basics and passed, however I would suggest testing the sand you purchased to make sure its ok.
Here is how you test sand with vinegar:
Simply place a teaspoonful of sand into a pint of vinegar, put the lid on tight and shake for about 2 minutes, most, if not all should dissolve. Allow the vinegar to sit for a few hours and recheck, if all of the sand is dissolved, then the sand is ok for your tank..
 

realmling

New Member
Thank you very much for the clarification on that!
We'd gone to quite a few sites gathering info before starting our brackish tank and most said play sand was fine...but they never gave any brands (or the husband didn't retain that info to pass it on)...and the selection around here was Quickcrete and more Quickcrete. I'll have to check some of the other home improvement places for future tank projects. (knew I should've come here first
)
Do you still need to give the sand a good rinsing if it passes the vinegar test or is it then fine out of the bag straight to the tank?
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Southdown, Yardright or Old Castle was originally made by the same folks. They are, to my knowledge, no longer in business. It was an aragonite based sand.
To check if sand is aragonite put some in vinegar. If it bubbles it is aragonite.
 

apos

Member
Please do some more research before making recomendations that aren't really correct..First off you want to find sand that is manufactured by Old Castle or Southdown. This may be a hard task depending on your location.
The "correct" thing you are telling him to do is impossible, as far as I know. :) They don't sell that stuff anymore, at least not cheaply, not even the Garden Basics as far as I know, which used to be available at Walmart as late as late as two years ago. Now they take the same product, bag it up for us reefers, and sell it at 10 times the old price. Jerks.
Sand is really complicated. The fine particles can most easily cloud the tank... but they are also the best as far as surface area for a sand bed. Silica sand is actually ok, but it just won't buffer your tank (that's basically what the vinegar test is telling you: whether you've got calcium carbonate on your hands or not). The dissolving kind is a buffer, but now pretty expensive to find for the vast majority of reefers. But you can also buffer your tank in other ways. Plenty of people do perfectly fine without aragonite sand.
And the shape matters too: the best for your tank is small and smoothly round, known as oolitic. You can actually get some for free in Utah it looks like:
http://geology.utah.gov/utahgeo/rock...ng/oolitic.htm
The reason silica is slightly less than ideal is that it tends to be jagged, and so will tend to lock up more instead of being more open, as well as be less comfortable for any delicate burrowers. But unless you are going for a true deep sand bed (4-6 inches), it doesn't really matter all that much IMHO. For many tanks, the sand is mostly just window dressing. And in some tanks its even something of a menace if not properly cared for.
 

realmling

New Member
Aragonite is a carbonate mineral (it's a form of calcite), so it will bubble in just about any acid, though most people don't have any HCl around the house.
So basically a good rule of thumb is no silicate based sand (which is what you'll commonly find in most places and is generally tan in color) but rather aragonite based or as close as you can get?
Edit - Apos typed faster than I did there....
While we don't have any oceans nearby - we do have some nice Pleistocene sand dunes with lovely fine grained well sorted grains......would that be better than purchased construction or play sands?
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by Apos
http:///forum/post/2460352
The "correct" thing you are telling him to do is impossible, as far as I know. :) They don't sell that stuff anymore, at least not cheaply, not even the Garden Basics as far as I know, which used to be available at Walmart as late as late as two years ago. Now they take the same product, bag it up for us reefers, and sell it at 10 times the old price. Jerks..
Apos, do you have any documentation on this?
I've shared my experience a couple of years ago. I put 700Lbs of Southdown in my tank a few years ago. I've been suplementing my sand bed with live sand occasionally. Anyway, a couple of years ago I was considering setting up another large tank. I called all around looking for Sothdown. Finally tracked them down at the "Yardright" webpage. When I told them what I was looking for they put me on hold and transferred me. When the young woman answered the phone she answered "Caribbsea" (I believe... can't remember which big manufacturer she said, but pretty sure that's who it was).
I've never been able to document this story though...
 

realmling

New Member
Ok, I've had another though crop up....and ya'll will just have to bear with the geology student here.
Almost all sands are silicate based in one way or another (the simple fact that silicate minerals are the most abundant on the surface of the earth) - even those with higher calcitic tendencies - and since silicates are one of the most inert substances around...they wouldn't be harmful in any environment. I can see more of a specific need for certain things in the sand needed for a reef or oceanic environment, and outside of how rounded the grains are or aren't along with grain size - there honestly shouldn't be anything wrong with using them if there aren't any other options available in the area.
Our best LFS is a 2 to 4 hour drive away.....so when you're stuck in the boonies trying to keep up an aquarium habit, you honestly don't always have a lot of choice. And if it comes down to being the black sheep and using a different type of sand and saving my money for more important aquarium needs...well, I can live with that part of things. Silicate sand with no aragonite is not going to kill my brackish fish, and if we ever change out the freshwater environment gravel, it will go in there too.
 

apos

Member
Just what I've read from google searches coming up with old threads of people all over the country looking for this stuff. The supply seems to have changed names several times, and one or two companies got bought out: too many for me to keep track of. The last Southdown-style deal I can find solid info on seems to have been at Walmart, where they marketed it as their "house brand" gardening sand. But that was mid-2006 and already people were saying it was drying up.
Since all of this stuff was mined out of the same place, it certainly stands to right that whomever owned the mine got wise and realized that they could make a killing on monopoly profits.
I just found that Utah link on a lark though: I wonder if you can actually go out there and get oolitic sand for free and if it works in tanks?
Silicate sand really isn't a big deal: people used to claim that it fed diatoms, until experiments showed that they can get silicate from anywhere when other conditions are right for their growth, even the glass in the tank if they need it. As it stands, silicate is the lesser substrate simply because it doesn't have any of the benefits of the other types, not because it will destroy the tank.
Aside from not buffering, silicate is just fine for the remote deep sand bed application I'm trying out, since all that matters is the small grain for surface area. I'm mostly just wondering how much I should bother washing/straining it. I'll probably screen mesh it in case there is any random garbage in the bag, but the super rinsing Realmling was talking about is probably overkill for my application.
 

michaeltx

Moderator
the orignal southdown or yardright sands were perfectly fine to use but when they found out it was being used for aquarium use they did add a warning to the bag "not for aquarium use" and then it slowly disapeared in most markets. I beleive that they changed the name or sold out to another manufacturer.
Not sure though.
Mike
 

realmling

New Member
If it's going under other material, you'd probably be fine with a less intensive rinse cycle. You will still probably want to do a dry screen to remove larger elements and the odd piece of metal like we found in ours. You could also get a set of graduated screens, then you could filter it out to the size you want if you're going for somethig specific. (this is easier when it's dry too). The standard play/construction sands are not, geologically speaking, well sorted, though just on the slightly larger end of the finer grained scale.
Just based on what we went through over the past week....if it's going to be the only substrate, then you will want to really rinse it, because that's a whole lot easier than a million water change outs. Unless you have a small tank....and you don't have a water bill to pay.
 

michaeltx

Moderator
I forgot to add I personally wont use it after the battle that I had with it and algae running crazy never did get it under control till I changed out the sand. I would personally spend the extra and get the aquarium stuff. also most of the play sand has a brownish color to the sand that I dont care for.
Mike
 

apos

Member
In my case, it's not going in a tank, but a bucket plumbed into the system: basically a somewhat different application, in the end, than having it in a tank, and so different concerns.
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by MichaelTX
http:///forum/post/2460753
I forgot to add I personally wont use it after the battle that I had with it and algae running crazy never did get it under control till I changed out the sand. I would personally spend the extra and get the aquarium stuff. also most of the play sand has a brownish color to the sand that I dont care for.
Mike
Wow, Mike. You and I have had completely different experiences with the sand. Mine was white, and has been great.
 

wfd1008

Member
i live near a golf course and every year they have a bunch of left over sand for their traps. it's the real fine grained white sand. would that be safe, or do the test to make sure?
 
W

wbradenpt

Guest
funny thing is that a few months ago i tried to give away the live sand that was previously in this tank. thought i was going to sell the tank, but that didn't happen. wish i hadn't thrown the sand in the garbage in hindsight.
anyway, now my wife wants me to put gravel on the bottom, and then tonga branch live rock on top of that. any potential problems with plan B?
 

acrylic51

Active Member
I have to agree with Apos on his point of silicia based sands not as bad as the other poster tried to misinform....maybe that person should do alittle research on that subject matter.....It's been used thousands of times and with mixed reviews, but some of the leading people in the hobby have discussed it and found nothing wrong with the practice, and alot of problems or issues people might have or have had could probably if investigated be related to their possible husbandry practices as far as sand bed maintenance...... Alot of people will tell you that a DSB doesn't need any type of maintenance and your not to disturb it.....Well they are misinformed again!!!!!!!

As far as Southdown, YardRight, Old Castle......The original manufacturer did sell the company, but the company was bought by a big concrete company.....Here in my state it's Pennsy Concrete.....I only know this, because my sister is a supervisor in quality, and we got talking about the stuff......I don't know off the top of my head the Head company name, but could get the info.....I do know I can get it from her, but have to buy a couple tons of the stuff, and don't think the wife would like a couple tons dumped in the driveway......
 

michaeltx

Moderator
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2460889
Wow, Mike. You and I have had completely different experiences with the sand. Mine was white, and has been great.
I thnk it depends on the vendors in each area and what they get in then becuase in my case it wasnt so good.
Mike
 
Top