Can't Keep Corals????

[scoobydoo]

I have a 125g, 100lbs LR, 3 inch LS bed, protein skimmer, 3 1200 Maxijet PH's started in Oct. All fish have been QT'd before adding to the tank and no medication has ever been added. I never see any pods so I'm not sure if its actually live sand or not. Temp is 80. Salinity is 1.024. Lights are 3 250W hqi de MH 13K and 2 140W VHOs. Lights are on 11-11 with the mh's on from 2-9. Ammo 0, nitrite and nitrate 0, ph 8.2, calcium 450. I add B-ionic once a week for calcium and alkilinity. Feed 1x day with frozen emerald entree and cyclopeeze. Twice a week krill, scallops, shrimp. I'm using distilled water for water changes and top offs once a week which I started about 3 weeks ago. My PH dropped to 7.8 last week probably for a few days when I was topping off with distilled water and didn't realize it. I'm now adding a marine buffer to keep the PH up. I have eggcrate for the top.
I had a bunch of coral that all died within a month because I had a PH fall into the sand bed 3 days in a row while I was at work creating a sandstorm for a few hours. I now have the PHs securely attached so I've had to start over. I got the corals from 4 different LFS.
I bought a elegance coral (didn't realize they were hard to begin with) and a green bubble coral that are both slowly dieing. I also have a white bubble coral which I had threw the sandstorms that isn't improving or getting better either. I also got a 3-4 inch rock of zoos 6 days ago and they haven't opened up yet. The elegance is in the sand. The bubbles are both about half way up the tank and the zoos are near the bottom. I only temp acclimated the bubbles but I drip acclimated the zoos for an hour.
Fish mates are: sailfin tang, blue tang, red firefish, purple firefish, 2 osc. clowns, six-line wrasse, 2 green chromis, bar goby and a foxface. I also have two brittle stars, a bunch of hermits, green emerald crabs and porcelin crabs, a bunch of peppermint shrimp and a cleaner shrimp.
I've researched and researched. Thought I was doing everything right.
What am I doing wrong? :help: :help: :help:

 

[ctgretzky9]

Have you tested alkalinity at all? I had trouble for a while when I found out my alk was extremely high. Nothing was dying, but they didnt look all that great.
Your salinity is fine, but 1.025 is supposed to be better, but I would say .024 should be fine. Maybe your next batch of water you could try and raise it a drop...another note regarding salinity...do you use a hydrometer or a refractometer? LFS told me he had a client whose hydro was off by almost 5 pts! SO he was measuring 1.025, but it was actually 1.020! Double check that.
Are you mixing your change out water for 24 hrs at least before adding to tank? What kind of salt do you use?
As far as top off, I get confused, but I had heard distilled isnt a great water to use. I beleive, I may be mistaken, it is "dead" or flat water. I also believe it can still contain phosphates....which is something else you may want to test for and consider, though they would have to be very high to have ill effects, but worth a shot.
One more thing, is maybe stray voltage? I know they can affect zoos, but not sure of the others.
Hope those are some ideas to consider.

 

[scoobydoo]

I tested alkalinity but my test kit is Red Sea and only has low, normal and high. Its halfway between normal and high. I use a hydrometer? I'll have my LFS check it.
I'm mixing my change out water and added salt and adding it right to the tank. I used Tropic Marin salt?
I'm ordering a six stage RO/DI unit from the famous auction site.
How do I check for stray voltage?
I just posted some pictures under the same heading in the New Hobbiest Form. The pictures came out green but they aren't that way in the tank.

 

[ctgretzky9]

Originally Posted by scoobydoo
I tested alkalinity but my test kit is Red Sea and only has low, normal and high. Its halfway between normal and high. I use a hydrometer? I'll have my LFS check it.
Get a test kit more reliable than that. SeaTest makes a good one. You probably have high alkalinity if even this one is picking up between normal and high. The hydrometer definately get it checked for accuracy.
Originally Posted by scoobydoo
I'm mixing my change out water and added salt and adding it right to the tank. I used Tropic Marin salt?
No good. You must mix water for at least 24 hrs...you are adding water that is not yet stable...it is throwing off the pH and alkalinity. It is most likely shocking things in the tank.
Originally Posted by scoobydoo
I'm ordering a six stage RO/DI unit from the famous auction site.
How do I check for stray voltage?
Cool...I think the ro/di unit is awesome to use! You can check for stray voltage using a circuit tester/grounding tester. I wouldnt worry about that too much, though it is good to check, especially with all of the lights you have. I know it affects zoos...

 

[scoobydoo]

Ok, I'll mix the salt in a rubbermaid bucket as usual and then wait 24 hours. Do I need a powerhead and heater?
What about top offs? Do I have to wait 24 hours for that too.

 

[ctgretzky9]

Originally Posted by scoobydoo
Ok, I'll mix the salt in a rubbermaid bucket as usual and then wait 24 hours. Do I need a powerhead and heater?
What about top offs? Do I have to wait 24 hours for that too.
You dont have to wait 24 hrs for top offs. Just make sur eyou are using good quality water thats it. This is why your alk/calc is so important...for top offs. Typically, top off water is acidic. The buffer of the water is what "eats" up the acidity.
As far as mixing up new water for changes, I have copied and pasted one of my posts below that I used for someone else. Thye had instant ocean salt mix (like me), so dont go by my actual quantities for the salt mix...follow the directions as far as amounts (cups per gallon) from the box you have. Everything else is the same regardless of the salt. You will notcie a marked improvement on the health of everything by properly mixing water:
You will need:
-1 cheap powerhead...like a rio 800 or a smaller maxi jet
-1 cheap heater around 100-150 watt (or a bag of ice to cool it down if your home is hot-dont add ice to the water itself to cool it...put it in a plastic bag)
-1 cheap air pump and stone (somewhat optional)
-1 refractometer if you can...(hydrometers should be outlawed)
-5 gal or more bucket for the mixing, another bucket at 5 gal to make it easier to dump in the tank (or tubing to use powerhead to pump it into the tank)
-salt mix
-good source water-no tap water unless its been tested
-a notepad to track all of your tests
1. fill bucket of any size about half with the water, then add appropriate salt for that amount ( i fill my 5 gal about 3gal worth, then with the instant ocean, I add 1.5 cups of salt) while stirring very well. (Salinity at the rate IO gives you will be around 1.022, thats too low, but more later about that)
Only add the salt to the water, never add water to the salt.
2. Finish adding your water to the bucket, then add appropriate salt again while mixing. At the rate IO gives you (1/2 cup per gallon) your salinity wil be around 1.022. This is when I add about 1/2 cup more to the water in addition to what I've added, and in a 5 gal scenario, it comes out to 1.025, which is about where you want to be.
3. Add powerhead to circulate and airstone to oxygenate (airstone is optional, i like it though)
4. cover and let circulate for around 24 hrs. A couple hours before you will use the replacement water, add the heater. Test salinity after water gets to targeted temperature, which for most is around 80. But acceptable range is around 77-82 give or take, varying opinions from many people.
5. Test salinity. If this is good, I suggest testing this water for ph and alkalinity and calcium and magnesium. This way you know the shortcomings of the mix. DO NOT ADD ANYHING TO THE REPLACEMENT WATER TO ADJUST except salt. It may cause a preciptaion event, which i learned the hard way one day If salinity is too high or too low, either add a little more salt or just unsalted water to adjust. If you must do this, let sit for a little while longer and circulate. Test salinity again.
6. Ready for the change? What I do, is I dump half of the 5gal into another 5 gal bucket, just to make it easier to handle the weight while pouring in. So that's why I have 2. And if you ave purchased a 10 gal mixing bucket or bigger, you could siphon out the water into the 5 gal bucket. You could also use the powerhead (thanks knowse) to pump the water into your tank instead of dumping it in.
7. Drain appropriate amount of water from your tank. Replace with new water.
8. Wait a few hours or so, then test your tank water. Given what you may know is lacking in your replacement water, plus the test on your tank water after replacement, this will give you a good idea what is needed.
Now you can add your b-ionic alk and calcium if needed and any other additives to the tank. Best to wait though to add anythig about 24 hrs and test then. But always test tank water before you add anything, and anything you add, do it slowly. Better to adjust over time than to try and quick fix things.
Hope this helps and good luck!!!

 

[scoobydoo]

I'll try that. Thanks for all your help.

 

[scoobydoo]

I think I found the problem. Temp is at 86. I'm home this week on vacation

:cheer: and noticed during the day the temp spiked. I have an open top with eggcrate and the AC isn't on today. I'll put a fan up and see what happens.

 

[stuckinfla]

86 is warm, but killer?? :notsure:

 

[scoobydoo]

I don't know either. That's the only think I can find. :notsure: :thinking:

 

[stuckinfla]

What was the difference in the regular temp & 86? I had mine jumping up and down for 2 months (by 8 degrees) and didnt have any losses. Any chemicles used in tank? Copper can be deadly to corals. Alot of the "ick" cures contain copper.

 

[scoobydoo]

Nothing has been added to the tank. I QT ALL fish for at least 4 weeks before adding them to the tank. I have my heaters set on 80.

 

[ctgretzky9]

In pristine water conditions, a temp swing may not matter that much, but it isnt good for the tank either. I think in the current conditions, with less than pristine water, it is possible that it is another contributing factor.
I suggest getting a fan to blow across the water.
I do this, and no matter how hot it gets, temp stays between 80-81. I am adding a bit more top off everyday, but it is worth it.
How much top off are you using a day?
Just make sure that your buffer system is up to par, because adding so much top off can throw things off.
I still strongly suggest an alk test kit, and have your hydrometer calibrated.

 

[scoobydoo]

Originally Posted by ctgretzky9
In pristine water conditions, a temp swing may not matter that much, but it isnt good for the tank either. I think in the current conditions, with less than pristine water, it is possible that it is another contributing factor.
I suggest getting a fan to blow across the water.
I do this, and no matter how hot it gets, temp stays between 80-81. I am adding a bit more top off everyday, but it is worth it.
How much top off are you using a day?
Just make sure that your buffer system is up to par, because adding so much top off can throw things off.
I still strongly suggest an alk test kit, and have your hydrometer calibrated.

Apparently, my temp is 88. My heaters are set at 80 and they keep going on so I unplugged them to see what happens. I add about 2 gallons of distilled water everyday. I just ordered a 6 stage RO/DI from the auction site which will ship UPS today. I just tested my water and these are my readings:
Salt 1.025
PH 8.0 (just added some Kent Marine Buffer)
ALK is "high"
Ammo .25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
Calcium 460
How do I lower the ALK?
I also added some Strontium & Molybdenum from Kent Marine. I have a test kit for Iodine but its very very confusing and I'm not sure what that is. I don't think I need to add Iodine if I'm doing regular water changes.

 

[ctgretzky9]

Originally Posted by scoobydoo
Apparently, my temp is 88. My heaters are set at 80 and they keep going on so I unplugged them to see what happens. I add about 2 gallons of distilled water everyday. I just ordered a 6 stage RO/DI from the auction site which will ship UPS today. I just tested my water and these are my readings:
Salt 1.025
PH 8.0 (just added some Kent Marine Buffer)
ALK is "high"
Ammo .25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
Calcium 460
How do I lower the ALK?
I also added some Strontium & Molybdenum from Kent Marine. I have a test kit for Iodine but its very very confusing and I'm not sure what that is. I don't think I need to add Iodine if I'm doing regular water changes.
88 is very high i would say. Get a fan, I am amazed at how it maintains water temp!
Your alk is high because "PH 8.0 (just added some Kent Marine Buffer) "
Buffer raises alk levels...alk is the measurement of your buffer. It will not raise pH at all.
You will raise your pH with proper water changes. Use that water change post I gave you...you'll be amazed
Your ammonia should be zero. I dont know why you are getting that reading. Is something dead in the tank somewhere?
Be careful adding those elements. You dont usually need to add those with proper water changes either. I add iodine, but i do test for it. I dont trust the accuracy of the test, but if i see it is really low I'll add 5ml or so.

 

[scoobydoo]

Sorry it took so long getting back. I'm on vacation and had to take the kids to play mini-golf. They kicked my

[hr]
!
I was thinking about the ammo when I was out. It's always 0 so I was confused. I'm guessing its from the green bubble that's dieing. I also have a frogspawn skelton I have to remove.
I'll put a fan up and do a water change tomorrow after I follow your instructions on the water change. I usually just mix it up and add it but I won't do that anymore.
How large of a water change should I do on a 125g?

 

[ctgretzky9]

Originally Posted by scoobydoo
Sorry it took so long getting back. I'm on vacation and had to take the kids to play mini-golf. They kicked my

[hr]
!
I was thinking about the ammo when I was out. It's always 0 so I was confused. I'm guessing its from the green bubble that's dieing. I also have a frogspawn skelton I have to remove.
I'll put a fan up and do a water change tomorrow after I follow your instructions on the water change. I usually just mix it up and add it but I won't do that anymore.
How large of a water change should I do on a 125g?

lol...yea, me too. I can shoot in the high 80's on the golf course, but my wife and kids can beat me on mini golf...go figure!
Ammo could be from bubble dying i guess, not sure about that.
Your alk is high also because of the way you are doing the wc's right now. I dont have the info right in front of me, but it has something to do with the oxygen/co2 equilibrium of just mixing and adding right away. This also causes the pH to be low or something to that effect...either way, it isnt good! :scared:
If it were me, I would do a few smaller water changes over the next few days...like 15 gal at a a time every other day for a total of 4 or 5 changes. I like doing smaller changes consitently over a period, rather than a couple of really large ones. I feel it eases inhabitants into an adjusted pH, alk or whatever other levels you are trying to adjust.
Other opinions will vary...some people think doing a large change is better.
Whichever way you go, I would replace around half of the water by the end. Especially in light of the problems you are having. Keep in mind, you don't have 125 gallons of actual water in the tank with all of the LR and inhabitants etc...
Good luck!