Cant keep fish alive

[Iron_brigade]

Hello, I am going to start up my salt water aquarium again but before I do that I would like some answers and feedback.

I previously ran a 75 gallon tank with a 30 gallon refugium and an Octopus skimmer. Nutrient Light in the refugium and non-Nutrient light up top. I had a Fish only tank. (clowns, Damsels, PJ Cards, easy fish like that) I did have half the bottom covered in live Rock. I had the bio sand. I installed my own RO water system to make sure water going in was perfect. I fed the fish frozen food from stores. Water temperature was constant at, if I remember correctly 72-75 deg F

I ran it for almost 2 years and in that 2 years I had all the chemical tests to make sure everything was perfect. The issue was this. Every single thing I put in that tank eventually died. The longest living thing was the Cardinals at 1 year. Everything else would eventually just belly up. Average life span of a clown fish was about 5 months. (all clowns were captivity bread) I bought fish from expensive stores from cheap stores, it didn’t matter. I also had turbo snails and lots of crabs none of those things were ever effected. I had a holloween urchin for a while and even that died after many months. Every level you need to check was perfect. The one thing I did have an issue with was Red cyanobacteria, it would come and I would do a full cleaning and treat the water and a few months later it would return. I couldn’t get rid of it. One thing that was happening was that purple coralline algae was taking over the live rock and growing in all the aquarium. I was told that that was a sign of a healthy tank. Is that True?

None of the professionals at the stores could tell me anything. Is there anything in what I have said that sounds odd or would contribute to my fish dying. Why could I not keep anything alive?

 

[bang guy]

No definitive answers from me but a few thoughts:

72F is too cold for tropical Saltwater fish. I would suggest 80 - 85F but as you mentioned, temperature stability is probably more important than the actual temperature. A lot of people keep their system at 78F but the fish you listed all come from warm water areas.

How many fish did you have? Cyanobacter is a sign of excess nutrient levels combined with low water flow. This can be from either overfeeding or simply having too high a bioload for the system to handle.

You mentioned treating the tank when you got excess Cyano. What did you treat it with? My personal opinion is that Cyano should be remedied from the cause (excess nutrients + low water flow). This takes longer but doesn't disrupt the natural balance of the tank like antibiotics can.

How much waterflow in the system? The fish you listed all inhabit the high energy zone of the reef so should have nearly turbulent water. Although most Cardinals do seek out calmer waters within the reef.

Do you remember what the frozen food you fed actually contained?

 

[beth]

It sounds like you had a good setup, but as Bang Guy said, a bit on the cool side for tropicals. You didn't mention water conditions nor specific food and feeding schedule. You may want to go with at least some live sand and live rock this time round. I also recommend using quarantine tanks to isolate your fish for a min of 3 weeks before moving them to the display tank. Otherwise, you are going to introduce fish diseases into your display tank.

 

[Iron_brigade]

Ok, nice to get a reply. I was going from memory on that Temperature. If I was to put money on the temp I ran it around 77-78 deg. I was told that this was the optimal and if I got up in to the 80's I would stress the fish. From what you have told me this is not so. I had really good water circulation up top. I had a very good header that ran counter the to the water inlet. The cyno would appear first and always grow down at the bottom of my fefugium under the plant. the refuguim was about 12 inches deep the was slowed way down at this point moving through here slowly. I would have to get back to you on the product I used to remove it. I wasn't sure how to manage it. I fed the fish once a day (about 3/4 a pinky fingernail size amount) and in that 75 gal I housed about 6 small fish. I don't remember the food. I used to get it from a Store in Plano, TX Neptunes Cove. He used the same food and had an amazing store.
Is it necessary to have live rock? I see on these shows like Tanked that they never use it and only ever put acrylic rock formations in the tank.
Also, is it a bad Idea to recycle the sand from the old tank. I dried it in the sun and put it away for future. If that's bad its not a big deal.

thank you

 

[jay0705]

Tanked are a bunch of idiots!!!!!. Don't use your old sand. There is more in it then you would believe. Live rock is not Necessary, but it is extremely helpful. If the cost is the issue a lot of folks use a majority of dry rock and seed it w a piece of live rock

 

[beth]

Its not necessary to have live rock. But its a lot better with it, a lot more stable system. LR provides a natural filtration for your system far superior than what you get from 100% man-made filters. The Tanked crew are setting up fish only tanks for a living, not even sure they know much about reefs. Their customers (at least on the show) are people who like tanks but don't really know or want to know much about them. Hobbyists are different, as well they should be; its not just an ornament for your living room. In my exp FO tanks are higher maintenance than a tank with live rock.

 

[Iron_brigade]

Define dry rock please.

 

[jay0705]

Same type of rock as live rock minus the life. Live rock is called such, bc of all the stuff growing and living in/on it. Dry rock just doesn't have any life on it. But will once in a tank. Especially when added with a few lbs of live rock. The stuff spreads to the "dry" rock

 

[fishlover0815]

Same type of rock as live rock minus the life. Live rock is called such, bc of all the stuff growing and living in/on it. Dry rock just doesn't have any life on it. But will once in a tank. Especially when added with a few lbs of live rock. The stuff spreads to the "dry" rock

I have dry rock but I don't have live rocks... They don't turn into live if there is no live rock to seed them? Or do they turn in to live eventually...?

 

[jay0705]

Eventually just takes longer

 

[geridoc]

I have dry rock but I don't have live rocks... They don't turn into live if there is no live rock to seed them? Or do they turn in to live eventually...?

There is "live rock", then there is "live rock"! What is the difference, you ask. Good question. If you just put dry rock into a tank it will eventually host the bacteria necessary to process nitrogen waste, but little else. Good live rock obtained from a good source will already contain bacteria, but also a variety of other life forms (copepods, worms, etc) that will enrich the life of the tank, providing for better food sources and clean-up crews. Last year, after being in operation for 5 years my 220 gallon system suddenly revealed a good sized serpent starfish that I had never knowingly added to the tank - it just came in on live rock. If money is the issue, use mostly dry rock, devoid of life, but do seed it with a few pounds of the live stuff just to seed the tank with all kinds of beneficial life (and yes, possibly some pests, too).

 

[jay0705]

Geridoc makes an excellent point. By good live rock, it's loaded with alage, critters,ect. Generally this isn't what you would get shipped due to die off. I have a lfs an hr away that I go to just for its quality rock. However a 5lb piece would seed the rest of your dry rock

 

[fishlover0815]

Geridoc makes an excellent point. By good live rock, it's loaded with alage, critters,ect. Generally this isn't what you would get shipped due to die off. I have a lfs an hr away that I go to just for its quality rock. However a 5lb piece would seed the rest of your dry rock

I live in a really small town with no saltwater supplies, I go to big cities by plane and get stuff I need... I can have patience and wait for my dry rock to turn in to live... But I am not getting live rock because it's a risk of bad pests and I'm only a starter... My grandpa really hates me doing saltwater because it's hard... But I want to prove it that I can do it... So I avoid things that are risky to my tank and do everything I need to(QT the fish and other things)

 

[Iron_brigade]

Great to Hear, Last time I purchased a full 50 Lbs of live rock and it killed my wallet.
So when using dry rock what can be used? Granite, limestone, lava rock, flagstone? what is best?
Aslo is there a way to create dry rock such as cementing new rocks then let them sort of season in a running system with no fish or life in it to wash out cement impurities, can this be done?
what is best.

 

[bang guy]

Dry reef rock is available at a reasonable cost. The others are iffy due to the possibility of contamination, especially lava rock.

You can cement rocks together. I've even mixed fusilli pasta with cement to create porous cement rock. The advantage being price and you can shape them however you want. Like you guessed, they can't be used right away, they need to cure until the PH calms down. If you have a clean creek nearby that will work to cure them. If they are small enough you can set them in the toilet tank so every flush changes the water for you. Otherwise any large container of water can be used to cure the cement but you'll need to change the water regularly to remove the limewater.