can't keep the chemicals balanced!

[pohtr]

I have almost killed my last coral and have even killed 2 shrooms. I know its my chemistry balance. My calcium level stays low, except for a little while after dosing. Alkalinity the same. Sometimes the magnesium as well. Everything else stays within range.
I need some sort of schedule. how do you figure this out? what's a good product? I do regular once a month 20% water changes and that's about as frequent as I can manage.
btw, the fish and inverts are all very happy and have been alive for 3 years now.
Also I'm a poor chemist but I want to fix this problem.
Thanks

 

[ophiura]

What a the levels, and your pH? What are you adding?

 

[pohtr]

The last time I checked they were:
temp 79
salinity 1.024
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 10
pH 7.9
alkalinity 1.5 (have since added 4.3 tsp bake soda)
magnesium 1250
calcium 360 (have since used 7.5 tsp)
I haven't retested since I did the adding but I suspect they're right back where they were which is what usually happens. I just hate chemistry, I do not understand it and to me it is very very complicated, everything depending on everything else. The tests are complicated, have lots of small parts, and the microscopic directions are written for chemists. Sorry to whine so much. Maybe I'm not cut out for corals. sigh, whimper, whimper......

 

[subielover]

You most likely wouldn't need to dose anything if you just did weekly water changes with a quality salt. I think you are making it too complicated.

 

[pohtr]

I have been acused of that before, and you're probably right. However, weekly water changes isn't realistic for my life. already work full time have 2 horses, 3 dogs, 7 cats, 2 finches, freshwter fish and the swa.
Can we work this with monthly water chnges?

 

[ophiura]

Do you have glass tops on the tank? What sort of circulation? Have you had the readings verified at an LFS?

 

[pohtr]

No glass tops on the tanks, never thought about it...my tank evaporates over a gallon a day (90 gal tank)
Circulation is:
rio2500 on skimmer 728gph
mag 5 return 500gph@4' 310
penguin 1140 300
powersweep 229
askol 402, ?
So I think that would be 880 gph, plus the Askol. We have no decent swa stores here. The only one less than an hour away did not test calc, magn, or alk. In fact I'm pretty sure the good one in Charlotte (is that vague enough?) wouldn't even test those.

 

[fau8]

Once a month water changes may work once you get your system stable and only for a fish only setup. The most I would go on a reef is bi weekly. For your investment you will only end up being frustrated and wasting $$.

 

[spiderwoman]

I'd change the water change frequency. Also for getting your alkalinity up, I'd use baked baking soda instead of straight baking soda (because your ph is below 8.2). Use straight baking soda for ph above 8.2.
What salt do you use?
How far are you from Shelby? There is an awesome store there that you might want to venture out to. They will give you great instructions. The large one in Charlotte is only good if you get one of their more experienced associates.

 

[pohtr]

Maybe I should go fish only and add new fish or starfish or something else I can't have because of corals??
Where do you get baked baking soda?
I use Tropic Marine (that's the good stuff, right?), but maybe all my evaporation is diluting its good minerals & such.
I've been to the one in Shelby and they wouldn't test anything but nitrite, nitrate and ammonia and maybe pH. Sometimes they're very helpful there.
Should I have glass tops?

 

[ophiura]

A starfish is equally sensitive.
No you don't need glass tops but it is a factor in the pH equation along with alk and calcium.
I do feel that if you want corals you may need to go to twice a month water changes...at least I would aim for 30% once a month.
What types of corals have you tried to keep? What lights do you have?
Evaporation concentrates minerals as only water evaporates. I really think the bigger issue is just not enough water changes.
In the end, that will impact your fish too. Low alk, pH, etc is not healthy for fish, and can result in their deaths (in particular low alk which results in pH fluctuations).
So basically if you are having issues with pH, alk and calcium, you will ultimately risk your fish too.
How many fish do you have, and how often/how much do you feed?

 

[pohtr]

o.k., no starfish either. Actually, I think my water change is closer to 25%, but hard to figure with the rock & fuge.
I had a bubble coral (past posts) who died
striped green mushroom (died)
colt corals (almost gone)
Is my pH too low? I thought it was just my alkalinity.
My fish:
coral angel
clarke clown
blue green chromis
lawnmower blenny
flame cardinal
everyone gets along fine and they've all been in the tank for about 2 years (except the chromis named Solo who has been here from day one...3 yrs.). I feed once daily, usually formula one, one cube last usually 2 days. They get formula two, brine shrimp, flakes, but not on a fixed schedule. I also have a pretty active clean up crew, only one shrimp though, a pistol (his watchman died/disappeared a few weeks after he arrived).
lighting is 4x65 PC. I know, I know, it's supposed to be higher. BUT the bubble came to me from a friend who had him for about 10 years and she had him with 2 regular fish tank flourescents. After I upgraded is when he started to die. Coincidence? The colt coral did well for about a year and even split into 2. There's a little teeny piece of one left, still clinging to life.

 

[ophiura]

Take a pH reading after the lights have been off all night, and another when the lights have been on all day.
Your pH is on the low end and I am concerned it may actually be quite low after the lights have been out awhile.

 

[pohtr]

Last night 8pm pH read 7.9
This morning 9am pH read 8.0
should be higher, right?
I do have a fuge light that is timed during the night, maybe that helps.
Also still have a teeny little colt coral hanging on to dear life.
This weekend is water change time & I will retest everything also & post results. I'm betting the calc & magnes & alk. will be down again.
thank you very very much for your help.

 

[ophiura]

I'm not all that concerned about that pH. As long as it is constant and really doesn't get lower.

 

[wattsupdoc]

Monthly water changes isn't going to be a problem for you. I am concerned more so how exactly you are dosing your BS and Calcium. Also, what exact products are you using? I like the B-ionic 2 part additives. I'm currently running a calcium reactor, so I don't dose except to make corrections from time to time. With your PH being what it is you might consider dosing kalkwasser. There are many methods of doing this. You could set it up for a once a week thing with a 5 gallon bucket and some polytube. Provided you have a place to house the bucket. SUMP????

Mrs. Wages pickling lime is a very inexpensive solution for kalk dosing. Also, there is a two part that you can buy on line that is getting good reports, I forget the name exactly. But it is sold in buckets and 1 gallon jugs. I want to say it "Total two part" I found that googling around, but I cant be sure that's the correct stuff. It would be a fine alternative though.
Now the thing is, the shrooms and other softies shouldn't give a hoot about calcium carbonate. They have no stony structure. so something else is amuck here. What is your water source? What lighting do you have? Are the bulbs new or less than a year old? Evaporation is good. It is an indication of good oxygenation(or at least gas exchange). The room that the SWA is in, is it a real tight room? Can you run your skimmers air line to an outside source? If so, increase the line size some to accommodate the extra resistance it will encounter from doing so. Also, make sure its in an area that will not become contaminated source. Like around vehicle exhaust, or possible animal waste(saw your avatar was horses) etc. etc.Do you run carbon? If not, I would recommend it at least periodically.
You appear to be a fine Aquariuest, I have been in the same similar spot. You'll get there, we just gotta figure out whats going on. Also, any changes you make, make them very gradually and ONE THING AT ATIME., Otherwise you might not ever find out exactly what is going on. Additionally, dosing alkalinity and calcium should be done DAILY(it only takes a second) you don't have to test daily, just find your daily usage and dose that, testing monthly. When adding be sure to mix with RO water and add VERY SLOWLY, with at least one hour between alkalinity and calcium. You should have a grasp on your usage by taking what you dose to get to where you want to be and dividing that by the days between your last dose. This will get you started finding your consumption rate.
However...Mr's wages and a bucket would be much easier.

 

[pohtr]

whatsup,
Thanks for your detailed reply. I haven't been dosing regularly because I don't know how. I have used the online calculator after testing to dose up to good levels but I've never really succeeded in getting the levels right. This last water change I never ended up doing the testing, sorry I just hate it, and its been a bad month (sick, broke foot, migraine, etc.) Excuses, excuses, I know but I p r o m i s e I will check levels very very soon....
I have looked all around locally and haven't been able to find Mrs. Wages pickling lime.....guess its not pickling season or something. I will continue searching, however. No lfs salt near.
Meanwhile, my water source is city water but I have the typhoon III so its rio/di.
lighting was bad, when I looked it up they were over a year old but have since been replaced so now they're new.
Haven't "run" carbon in a long time but even then I think all I did was have a bag of it in the fuge where the water poured over it. I have a phosban thingy, can't that be used for carbon?
The living room is big and airy, in fact the whole house is big and airy (loose & drafty old farm house)
The little bitty survivor of colt coral is still hanging on!
thanks for your help

 

[wattsupdoc]

I've got three containers of Mrs Wages here. Pay the shipping and you can have them. They are brand new unopened and will last you for a very long time.
I'm sorry, I didn't reread all the thread. I just skimmed through it. It's been several weeks since your last reply. So I don't exactly recall all your situation. I did gather you were having problems keeping corals, believing it was a chemistry thing. You believed you had a chronic low PH and dosed a buffer to correct that??? You are having problems finding the right dose to add daily to keep up.
I just don't know what exactly may be the cause, I don't know that it's your chemistry as your softies don't care about CaCo2. What about lighting? What do you have? Where were these placed in the aquarium? How much Live rock/live sand? Tell me more about your filtration. What kind of flow to you have?
Yes, the phosban reactor would be a fine location for the carbon. Be sure to pre rinse it well, and don't let it tumble so much it grinds it. What are you currently running in it?

 

[domsbuddy]

I haven't read all the detail of this thread but the sense I get is that most feel you can solve your problems with more frequent water changes and you think you don't have enough time to do more frequent water changes. Is it possible that you could automate your water changes so that it is more effecient. I change about 50 gallons of water in about 45 minutes. It takes longer to test the water than it does to change it. I still test it but less frequently because I am not seeing evidence of a problem. Just a thoght.

 

[veni vidi vici]

when you dose are you raising you cal an alk fast or slowly?If you are raising alk fast your ph could be rocketing up fast...to fast for your coral to adjust to.This could equal death or some sickly looking coral.