Cardinal holding babies?!

[azfishgal]

Either I do in fact of a "pair" of Bangaii Cardinals and the male is holding babies, OR I have a sick fish. When I put food in the tank I noticed one Cardinal was eating but didn't see the other one. As I looked around I found him on the backside of my rock work and was very surprised to see his jaw "swollen". He never did eat, but he's swimming around with this swollen jaw. Is it babies or do I have a sick fish?

If it is babies I'm very excited for the new parents

, but sad knowing these babies more than likely will not survive but instead be live lunch for the other fish.

 

[btb9000]

Seems like it's babies.
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/291869/breeding-bangaii-cardinals

 

[azfishgal]

Thanks, don't know how I missed that thread.

I'm leaving for 5 days this week, so I won't be able to do anything until I get back. If he still has the babies in his mouth when I get back maybe I can catch him and put him in my 10 gallon QT tank. We'll see what happens. None the less it's still pretty exciting that I do in fact have a mated pair.

 

[teresaq]

Will he come to the front of the tank. Can you get him into a breeder net. you migh try adding a ball of cheato or micros for a hiding place for the babies if you cant get him in a breeder net. Good luck.
TeresaQ

 

[btb9000]

Yea, I'd definitely try to get him & her in a breeder's net. They shouldn't be more than $10 at any LFS.

 

[fmarini]

hes holding.....congrats
you have approx 21 days from the day he stopped eating to the day of release. If your interested in raising the fry, you can remove the male, and keep him seperate (like in a holding tank or you can use a intank breeders net
alternatively, if hes in the display tank and you want to "try" and recuse a few fry, consider adding a live long spines sea urchin or you can use an artificial homemade on-both work well and the fry will hide in the spines for protection.
Just remember at about 20-21 days from the start date to have phytoplankton enriched baby brine shrimp ready to roll for the banngers (my term for banggai fry), as they will NOT eat dead prepared foods
BTW- if you want to catch him -wait for a few hrs after lights out, then w/ net in hand in the tank, immediately snap on the lights; home acclimated banggais sleep and freeze when the lights pop on, you'll have 5 secs.
Also if you want to read up on how-to and whats next, feel free to do a google search for banggai cardinal and my last name, you'll find quite a few articles. BTW- that articles that is cut-n-pasted in the other thread is from my original banggai breeding report from 1996
frank

 

[cpbirds407]

Ha!!! You got it!!! YOur male has eggs in his mouth! Look at my thread ii this forum. You'll see the whole process that I've gone thru! Now you will go thru the same! Try to save the babies since they are on the endangered list. It would be cool if you can help the species by producing some Captive bred Bangaiis! Good luck and please keep us posted. I would really like to know how you do in this time consuming project. LOL. If I can be of any help, please feel free tp PM me. I check it every day.
Take care.
Charlie.

 

[msez2u]

Why are these little guys on the endangered list..I had no idea they were...Oh and by the way good luck..

 

[azfishgal]

Thanks everyone for your advice, I'm excited about the prospect of babies!!!

But I'm also scared, because this couldn't have come at a worse time. I'm leaving on Wednesday for 4 days!!!! Should I go ahead and catch him now and put him in my QT tank. It's a 10 gallon nano tank that I was using to QT all my new fish. Last fish went into my DT two weeks ago. It's still running and ready for me to use, but I would have to do something to cover the filter with a denser sponge so it wouldn't suck up the babies. I would also need to take out the power head I believe. Maybe I should just do the breeders net (I might actually still have one from my guppy days).
Oh, now I'm starting to become a worried mother!!!

If I do put the male in the QT should I put the female in there with him? Will she be ok without him for a few weeks.

 

[fmarini]

MsEz2u--
you ask why the banggai are placed on the IUCN redlist/Endangered species list?
Short answer--the hobby. These fish have been overcollected to provide the hobby fish for our aquarium.
Banggais are a unique population in that they mouthbrood, make very few babies, and the fry don't dispearse over the ocean. So you have a localized fish, that reproduces slowly. Recent census over the past 8 yrs have shown approx 700,000-900,000 banggais are collected and exported/yr. The current total population is consider ~ 2 million fish, in the 60+ sites surveyed over the past 8 yrs, the last census showed than <34 sites still had fish.
Anyway, bottomline, if you can produce captive banggais I implore everyone to do so, the CITES restrictions did not pass, and the fish is still being collected today, so every fish you produce can be one less fish captured

 

[cpbirds407]

Originally Posted by FMarini
MsEz2u--
you ask why the banggai are placed on the IUCN redlist/Endangered species list?
Short answer--the hobby. These fish have been overcollected to provide the hobby fish for our aquarium.
Banggais are a unique population in that they mouthbrood, make very few babies, and the fry don't dispearse over the ocean. So you have a localized fish, that reproduces slowly. Recent census over the past 8 yrs have shown approx 700,000-900,000 banggais are collected and exported/yr. The current total population is consider ~ 2 million fish, in the 60+ sites surveyed over the past 8 yrs, the last census showed than <34 sites still had fish.
Anyway, bottomline, if you can produce captive banggais I implore everyone to do so, the CITES restrictions did not pass, and the fish is still being collected today, so every fish you produce can be one less fish captured
Yeap! Listen to FMarini! He knows his stuff and I respect him for that! Great guy, great info!

 

[azfishgal]

What if I put the male down in my refuge? I would have to put a fine mesh where the water falls down into the skimmer compartment, but the babies would be contained. However, if the male dropped the babies BEFORE they were free swimming the hermit crabs would get to them.

I might not be able to do anything this time around as I'm not really prepared for this. But knowing that my pair of Cardinals did breed, how often will they produce eggs? I'm pretty sure this is a first for my two Bangaii Cardinals, as I got them about 6 months ago and they were fairly small.
If he can hold onto those eggs until I get back (Sunday), I might be able to set something up like a breeders net. I think it would be better than the QT because the small tank is hard to keep the parameters in check.

 

[cpbirds407]

He will Hold the eggs/babies for a few weeks. I'm pretty sure that when you come back he will still have them in its mouth. Mine kept them in his mouth for almost three weeks! Hopefully, yours will do the same.
I dont think that the refuge thing is a good idea. But its just my opinion.

 

[fmarini]

the fish will breed approx 1x month (every 21-24 days), but the problem will be keeping the male holding eggs. Do recall that the males don't feed during this time, so he won't eat repeatedly if you allow him to bred again. In the wild the females just finds another male.
So you'll experience the greatest successes w/ allowing the male to fatten up between broods.

 

[azfishgal]

Originally Posted by cpbirds407
He will Hold the eggs/babies for a few weeks. I'm pretty sure that when you come back he will still have them in its mouth. Mine kept them in his mouth for almost three weeks! Hopefully, yours will do the same.
I dont think that the refuge thing is a good idea. But its just my opinion.
I'm not going to worry about it then, I'll just put him in a breeder net, or QT tank when I get back if he is still holding onto the eggs. And if not, I'll watch out for the next time.

I'm just thrilled I have an actual pair that does breed!

I guess this means they are pretty happy in my tank.

 

[azfishgal]

Well, he's still holding the babies.

I know it won't be long before he lets them go though. I have a breeder net in my tank ready for him, but I tried catching him tonight and well.......it didn't go well.

I'm now wondering if the stress in trying to catch him is going to cause him to let go of the babies. I'm not sure exactly what day we are on, but I know it can't be much longer before he's ready to drop them and if it's sooner than later they will be live fish food for the rest of the tank.

Any ideas on how to catch my father-to-be?