Cardinal with serious battle damage

[gmann1139]

After a year in the same tank, the Tomato Clown went after the Banggai Cardinal and caused serious damage.
We have the traditional ripped fins, as well as some gill damage, and a giant knot growing above one eye. The gill area is looking a little pink, so I am concerned about a bacterial infection as well.
The Cardinal has been isolated in my QT, but after three days it still looks very uncomfortable and isn't swimming correctly.
Is there anything I can dose or do to the tank (low sal, high sal) that will make it more comfortable and speed recovery? This fish looked within minutes of death when I found it, but it has battled the last couple days, and I want to give it the best shot possible.
Thanks in advance.

 

[beth]

He sounds like he's in bad shape.
If the QT is cycled, try using Maracyn Two for saltwater fish, which is an antibiotic.

 

[gmann1139]

Thanks Beth. I have been away from SWF for a couple of years,and wondered if you still swam in this forum.
In reading up on Maracyn Two, it seems that some say to double the dosage in SW. Is that recommended?

 

[beth]

If all you can find is the freshwater Maracyn2, yes, but if you have SW variety, then you double dose for first dose, thereafter, as directed. Also do a small water change just before each redose. Keep the tank lights off except for an hour before feeding, leaving some lighting in the room so the QT is not in darkness. (Lights degrade the antibiotic). If the fish is eating, offer food that has been saturated in freshly minced garlic juice (FRESH).

 

[gmann1139]

New day, new symptom.
The fish had a 'knot' above its eye when I rescued it from the DT. I assumed it was just battle damage, but as of this morning, it has grown to be a gas bubble the size of a pea, which is causing the poor, injured fish serious buoyancy issues and tiring it out.
I dosed the Maracyn Two yesterday. The bubble was present before, but not nearly this size.
Should I hold off on the next dosage a couple days to see if the bubble goes down? I have enough packets to 'start over' and still have the correct dosage.
What about hypo? In reading up on 'gas bubbles', I saw that hypo was a treatment in seahorses.
Thanks in advance.

 

[beth]

Can you post pictures?
It sounds like popeye, infection. Keep up with the M2.

 

[gmann1139]

For reference, the 'growth' is completely transparent. I can see right through it.
Since my post this morning, I believe it is about the same size.

 

[beth]

He's pretty ragged. How are the water readings in the QT? Also, do have some sort of hiding spots/cover for the fish in the QT?
Is he still eating?

 

[gmann1139]

Readings are all within normal range.
There are hiding spots, but with the positive buoyancy the growth is causing, the Cardinal can't use them.
Yeah, his fins are not in great shape. The Clown really did a number on him.
Checking against the pictures, it looks like the growth is now ~1/3 smaller (and shrunk, rather than popped).
I also just fed frozen soaked in garlic, and the fish attacked with vigor.

 

[beth]

In that case, I would feed 3-4 x a day, just enough to completely consume.

 

[gmann1139]

Today is Day 5 of Maracyn Two treatment.
Fish is 'acting' better (swimming more normally), but the 'knot' remains on its head and its gills still look inflamed.
I need to perform a WC tomorrow in order to reduce waste food (QT was cycled, but I am not going to risk it).
Should I perform the minimum change necessary, and wait a couple more days for the chemicals to dissipate naturally, or should I perform a major WC to remove them more completely?
Also, since symptoms still appear, should I consider treating with Maracyn (One) or another round of Two in a few days?

 

[beth]

I always perform a small water change daily just before de-dosing. Keep the treatment going. Are you using the saltwater fish formula? Does it have the VitB supplement?

 

[gmann1139]

No, unfortunately the only M2 the LFS had was the FW variety.
The fish was looking a lot better on Wednesday, which was the fifth last day I dosed M2. I had planned on doing a WC on Thursday, but a sick wife prevented that.
Instead, the 'knot' blew back up on Thursday, but deflated again on Friday. I was able to perform a 25% WC this morning, and dosed Amquel as I am concerned the sudden bioload of the fish may overwhelm the tank.
The fish is now resting on the bottom of the tank. I am not sure if it is exhausted or whether the 'balloon' is causing a deeper buoyancy issue.
I called a different LFS today. They carry Maracyn Plus for SW. Is it better to use that or the FW versions of Maracyn and M2? Since I am really not sure what I am dealing with, and not sure the M2 defeated it, I would like to dose as wide-range of anti-bacs as possible.

 

[beth]

FW M2 is not as strong as the SW variety. If you can obtain the SW M2, then, yes, use it. It should have a VitB additive which is beneficial. If you get the SW, continue for 3 days then lets see how the fish is doing. Water change just before re-dose.
For the most part, SW fish have gram-neg bacterial infections. M2 is a gram-neg antibiotic. Its working, so I would stick with it, using the SW brand.

 

[gmann1139]

Ended up having to buy the M+ (limited options in NJ yesterday). Gave the first dose last night. The fish's gills, which were inflamed earlier in the week look much better, as do its fins.
My main concern now is the 'balloon' has blown up again. I have attached a blown up pic. This is from earlier in the week, but the size and composition of it haven't changed.

It is very strange to look at. The portion external to the surface of the fish is transparent, so if you are at the right angle, you can see inside the fish.
I am very concerned that this growth has come and gone three times in the last week plus. It looks too high on the fish's body to be inside the gill, but the gill on that side does appear to be damaged, and based on the trouble the fish is having with buoyancy and orientation it may be gas-filled.
When it is not a 'balloon', it looks more like a translucent white 'knot' on the fish's body.
Has anyone ever seen anything like this before or can explain it? I agree that is almost looks like popeye, except for the fact it is not the eye that is 'popping'.
This is not a suggestion I take lightly, but should I consider trying to pop it?

 

[beth]

I agree that is very strange. Was there a wound in that area before the bubble occurred?

 

[gmann1139]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/394454/cardinal-with-serious-battle-damage#post_3511992
I agree that is very strange. Was there a wound in that area before the bubble occurred?
Yes, the area has alternated between a knot/bump on the surface and full-blown bubble four times now.
I think this may not be all battle damage. I just took a close look at the fish, and the white/silver stripe that runs across its forehead is completely missing its scales. Almost like HLLE, except running from gill to gill across the head instead of down the Lateral Line.

 

[beth]

Perhaps that is battle damage as well. How is the fish improving aside from this? It may come down to trying to pop that.

 

[gmann1139]

The fish seems normal when it is not trying to compensate for this bubble. Appetite is still vigorous.
I was at the LFS yesterday for an unrelated reason, and mentioned this situation to an employee. He mentioned that it could be popeye, as it can present outside the eye. Have you ever heard of that? This LFS is still kind of new to me, and I am not sure how much I trust their diagnosis.

 

[beth]

Popeye is an eye disease, and this is really not in the eye area. Also, popeye would respond to antibiotics.