cc verses sand?

clownbuddies

New Member
As I am reading different posts,I am seeing that people recommend sand verses CC. Why is that? The guy at my fish store said that sand requires more buffers. Is that true?
Why is sand easier?
Thanks:(
 

michaeltx

Moderator
the critters that live in the sand has a hard time dealling with CC plus you have to clean the CC on a monthly or more basis to keep the water quailty up. the particals are to large. plus snad sifting fish such as gobies need the smaller grained sizes to utilize it. it also gives a more natural appearance. argonite sand will also act as a buffer but you still have to watch your levels no matter which you go with.
IMO
Mike
 
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thomas712

Guest
Most of us will not use crushed coral because it is a large substrate that traps the fish waste and uneaten food that has to be vacuumed before it creates nitrates, which it will anyway. Crushed coral does not provide a very good biological zone, and many tanks are setup with CC from the get go through lack of knowledge or because it is the only substrate that an LFS sells and tells you that it is all you need, using a selling point of CC has buffering power. I have personally battled nitrates over 100 ppm during my days of CC and UGF doing frequent large water changes. So many of us have been there and had high nitrates, did a water change to lower them and they were back in a couple of days. CC has sharp edges, which is undesirable for inverts, like anemones walking around, pods or worms. No getting around it CC is high maintenance and can lead to poor water quality, frequent maintenance, sick livestock, algae blooms and more.
Sand on the other hand has more benefits. These include having far more surface area thereby making it able to handle a higher bio load of bacteria. It is less dangerous to your infauna and has a more natural look in the tank. If going with a DSB Deep Sand Bed you can have other benefits as well like finishing the denitrification or providing sand sifting, burrowing, or tunneling fish and critters a place to play. The denitrification process predominantly occurs in deeper substrates and in areas of stagnant flow where oxygen levels are depressed. And this is why deep sand beds are effective as a nitrogen export mechanism. As water slowly diffuses deeper, aerobic organisms strip all available oxygen for respiration. In the deep, oxygen-deprived layers, denitrifying anaerobes are given the opportunity to convert nitrogen compounds into nitrogenous gases, which escape via tiny bubble out of the aquarium. I believe this process can also work on a limited basis in shallow sand beds. My sand bed is no more than 2 inches deep in some spots.
Thomas
 

freeride7

Member
I just went through this. LFS told me CC was the way to go. He also told me that I could fire fish in my tank by day 3!!! I am thinking they may tell you anything to make a sale! Thank god I stumbled across this site, have learn't alot.
Just changed my CC to a 2.5" sand bed tonight. I was lucky, was only day 4 of my cycling, only had LR in the tank. All is well, glad I did it, sand looks great.
TS
 

clownbuddies

New Member
I think you all have convinced me to go with sand instead of CC. Now what kind of sand do you suggest and where do I go for it. I am not looking to spend a fortune consider I just bought 40lbs of CC. could you suggest several options?
Thanks so much for your knowledge.
:) ;) :) ;) :) ;)
 

lesa

Member
Southdown, yardright, old casltle they are sold at Lowes, Home Depot you may even check Walmart. And of course you will have to seed it with a cup of GOOD LIVE SAND.
 

clownbuddies

New Member
I have a 5 gallon tank that I have had for 1 year that has CC in it. Can I take some of that and put it in the sand from Lowe's?
 

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
I use play sand from home depot/lowes/walmart, with CC and rocks on top. seems to be working fine. I also use macro algae/plants to complete the cycle, balance out, and stabilize the system.
Any cloudiness should settle down in a matter of days.
I recommend you not put any fish in the tank until at least three weeks have passed with all live rock and sand present. That way fish borne parasites will have a chance to die off. From my experience, this will be the only three week period with no fish from now on.
To cycle, I recommend live fish not a dead anything. I suggest a molly and you not feed him for a week
Welcome to salt.
Bob
 

clownbuddies

New Member
Are you saying that I can buy sand and just let it develope the bacteria it needs by itself, and not add anything else to it?
 

freeride7

Member
From what I gathered on here, once you add the rock to the sand, the process eventually starts in the sand?? Am I wrong?
I never heard of adding the algae...is this necessary with the LR in the tank already?
 
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thomas712

Guest
freeride - If you add dead sand and then put liverock on top then the live rock will seed the sand bed. Even if you use dead sand and dead base rock once you go through the cycle it will become live with bacteria, but you really need to go a step further by making sure that there are infauna critters to help keep the sand bed turned over slowly..ie pods,worms and such, thus we also tell people to add a cup of sand from an established tank,or live rock which should contain the pods, worms, chitons, and critters to help populate the dead sand.
Thomas
 
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thomas712

Guest
For those asking what sand to get:
So what sand do I use to build my sand bed?
The answer here is aragonite sand. Many hobbyists have found that Southdown, Yard right or its apparent new name of castle sand ( or something like that) works very well for reef aquariums. This is due to it being calcium carbonate based, and with an excellent grain sizes makes for a good functioning sand bed. 1/8mm is very fine> 1/256mm to 1/16mm is considered silt, and less that> 1/256mm is considered clay.
Southdown seems to mostly contains very fine to silt size particles, and maybe a few larger than 1/8mm.
Other aragonite sands are available through many LFS. If it is aragonite it is good.
The trick here is to make sure that it is aragonite and not calcite sand as many different minerals have identical chemical formulas but wildly different properties. Aragonite is orthorhombic crystal and calcite is rhobehedral, scalenohedral or prismatic crystals
This means they have a different arrangement of atoms giving them different properties of density, solubility, hardness etc. They also tend to incorporate different trace elements, based on what best fits into their different crystal structures. Aragonite will substitute larger atoms such as strontium. Calcite grabs magnesium and iron. Aragonite’s properties are much more beneficial in a closed system.
It also seems that many have used Quick Crete play sand with success though it is not calcium carbonate based, but silica based instead. No this does not mean that you will have silicates in your tank.
Very Generally speaking Silica sand, lets say industrial style is a high purity quartz (SiO2) sand. Silica is a stable compound and will not leach silicates into your tank for it has no "sillicates in it. Depending on its chemical and physical characteristics, silica sand is used as glass sand, foundry sand, abrasives ..etc. Silica sand can contain tiny amounts of impurities, such as iron, manganese, chromium, calcium, or aluminum, and give the sand its color depending on how much of these impurities are contained within. So it depends on geographically where your silica sand comes from as to how much impurities it contains. If you are going to use silica sand look for white silica sand as it is much more aesthetically pleasing
A warning about silica crystals:
Silicosis is a disabling, nonreversible and sometimes fatal lung disease caused by overexposure to respirable crystalline silica. More than one million U.S. workers are exposed to crystalline silica, and each year more than 250 die from silicosis. There is no cure for the disease, but it is 100 percent preventable if employers, workers, and health professionals work together to reduce exposures.
So in other words do not breath this dust. FYI there is also a warning label required by the state of California that is required on silica play sand.
Ways to test sand to see if you might be able to use it in your aquarium:
Take a sample of your sand and test some of the sand with vinegar. If it bubbles/dissolves, it is calcium carbonate sand and should be safe to use.
Take some sand and pass a magnet over it or in it, it might come out with little metal shavings from processing, if it does I would not use it. Though I have heard of some who have with little poor effects. Iron can actually be a fertilizer for macro algae.
Hope that helps some.
Thomas
 

freeride7

Member
thanks for the advice Thomas. I did notice when I threw my live rock in, I seen little white things swimming around....(pods)? and a couple of long worms...(briss worms)? The LR I bought was in really good shape, some dead spots. Should I be well on my way? Or should I also introduce some LS if I can get my hands on it?
Another comment, just yeterday I placed arogonite sand - 1/8mm. Pulled out my cc. Ended up having about a 2-5 to 3" bed when completed. Water was very cloudy but by this morning, it is almost crystal clear. I have alot of water movement, that probabaly helped.
TS
 
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thomas712

Guest
You should be well on your way, the pods are amphipods, copepods, isopods. The live rock contained enough bacteria that your sand go coated with it and was pulled down by gravity. The finer particles down to silt can take a week or more to settle down depending on what type of sand you use and bacteria present.
A little pinch of flake food might be in order to help feed the pods and bristle worms, if you have fish right now thier waste will feed them.
Thomas
 
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