chaeto distribution

keith gray

keith gray

Member
OK - Question for everyone using chaeto.
As I understand it, once chaeto grows you are to take some of it out and dispose of it, therefore removing some nitrates it has gathered from your system.
My LFS says if I grow some and bring it back in they will credit me towards another purchase. Does this mean they are selling my nitrate filled chaeto to someone else ? Does this mean the chaeto I bought form them could have been nitrate filled chaeto from someone else's tank ?!
I am thinking about bring them some and trading for some caluerpa just to try it.
What is everyone's thoughts ???!
 
keith gray

keith gray

Member
Someone on here once told me that you need to take some of the chaeto out or you will never be removing the nitrates. Whoever that was are you out there ??!
 
mastertech

mastertech

Member
correct me if im wrong and this can get complicated but the chemical makeup of decomposing organics and waste from other organisms produce ammonium (NH4) which is broken down by ammonia oxidizing bacteria and Nitrifying organisms which converts ammonia to nitrites (NO2) Then other bacterial species are responsible for the oxidation of the nitrites into nitrates (NO3) then with the introduction of a macroalga or some macroalgae into the cycle the nitrates are assimilated (absorbed) into the algae and converted into complex amino acids, nucleic acids, and chlorophyll.
the cycle will restart and you will get a spike of nitrates if the algae is allowed to die and decompose.
 
taznut

taznut

Active Member
Originally Posted by mastertech
http:///forum/post/3175498
correct me if im wrong and this can get complicated but the chemical makeup of decomposing organics and waste from other organisms produce ammonium (NH4) which is broken down by ammonia oxidizing bacteria and Nitrifying organisms which converts ammonia to nitrites (NO2) Then other bacterial species are responsible for the oxidation of the nitrites into nitrates (NO3) then with the introduction of a macroalga or some macroalgae into the cycle the nitrates are assimilated (absorbed) into the algae and converted into complex amino acids, nucleic acids, and chlorophyll.
the cycle will restart and you will get a spike of nitrates if the algae is allowed to die and decompose.
to simplify this... amm-->nitrite-->nitrate... this is done by different bacteria in your sand and live rock...
i thought the macroalgea used the NO3 as food to grow... so i dont think it is holding on to it... as stated above, you take some out (harvest it) because it out grows the space...
 
nycbob

nycbob

Active Member
removing cheato from ur system will allow the remaining cheato to grow and absorb more nutrients. if u dont removing ur cheato from time to time, its growth may stunt and so will its capacity to remove nutrients. cheato can only absorb nutrients when it is growing.
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
If you are using a macro algae as a vehicle to reduce nitrates - phosphates in tank then harvesting is actually pulling that out of the system and freeing up room for the remainder to grow. The reason your fish store will take it from you is to sell it so that somone else can start a crop. Yes there are pent up nutrients in macro algae waiting to be released when - if the algae die. Just like any protein materials in the tank.
I would submit to you that if you grow a macro to absorb nutrient but you never take the macro out, or harvest it, you have not removed the nuteint just converted it into a different form. That form could convert again, releasing the nutrient back into the system.
So.......nutrient absorb by macro -> macro harvested out of system = nutrient out of system. By product = freed up space for remaining macro to grow ->absorbing more nutrient ->harvest and so on and so on.
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by mastertech
http:///forum/post/3175429
I think the only reason you harvest the chaeto is because it will out grow the space provided.
I do not believe this to be true cheato assimilates nitrates and the only way to physically remove the nitrates is to harvest the cheato
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Keith Gray
http:///forum/post/3175446
Someone on here once told me that you need to take some of the chaeto out or you will never be removing the nitrates. Whoever that was are you out there ??!
You are removing them from your water but not from your tank that is only accomplished by harvesting
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
simplify this... amm-->nitrite-->nitrate... this is done by different bacteria in your sand and live rock...
nitrification bacteria colony's will grow on just about any surface that comes in contact with organic brake down
 
mastertech

mastertech

Member
Originally Posted by mastertech
http:///forum/post/3175498
...then with the introduction of a macroalga or some macroalgae into the cycle the nitrates are assimilated (absorbed) into the algae and converted into complex amino acids, nucleic acids, and chlorophyll.
the cycle will restart and you will get a spike of nitrates if the algae is allowed to die and decompose.

Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3176137
I do not believe this to be true cheato assimilates nitrates and the only way to physically remove the nitrates is to harvest the cheato
i have never studied this in a lab nor will i but from the bichemistry books and online resources I have studied the ammonia (NH3) ammonium (NH4) nitrites (NO4) and nitrates (NO3) do not stay in there chemical compound once assimilated into the algae, they are converted into other complex chemical compounds due to reactions with enzymes and protiens that provide a biocatalysis where the nitrogen source (ie.ammonia, ammonium, nitrites, nitrates) that has been assimilated into the algae is converted into usefull organic compounds. these organic compounds are the entire makeup of every living organism. when the organism breaks down the the nitrogenious compounds can and will easily be converted back into the toxic compounds that we are constantly trying to remove.
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3176139
You are removing them from your water but not from your tank that is only accomplished by harvesting
correct. you are not removing them from the tank but you are converting them into less toxic forms (at least temporarily, until they die and decompose)
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
I think the only reason you harvest the chaeto is because it will out grow the space provided.

So I have to return to your original post. If as you say the cheato which assimilated the nitrates and then converted them can still introduce toxic compounds as you state in post 142 would the main reason to harvest be to reduce the amount of potential reintroduction into our tanks and not because it needs space to grow ?
 
mastertech

mastertech

Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3176775
So I have to return to your original post. If as you say the cheato which assimilated the nitrates and then converted them can still introduce toxic compounds as you state in post 142 would the main reason to harvest be to reduce the amount of potential reintroduction into our tanks and not because it needs space to grow ?
yes your right.
that statement was only to inform and correct the first post of the idea that chaeto that assimilates nitrogeneous compounds is bad to sell to other people. he possibly did buy someone elses chaeto that absorbed nitrate and nitrites and ammonia etc. but they were all converted into organic compounds that are.... again temporarily non toxic and benificial to your tank.
Originally Posted by Keith Gray
http:///forum/post/3175389
OK - Question for everyone using chaeto.
As I understand it, once chaeto grows you are to take some of it out and dispose of it, therefore removing some nitrates it has gathered from your system.
My LFS says if I grow some and bring it back in they will credit me towards another purchase. Does this mean they are selling my nitrate filled chaeto to someone else ? Does this mean the chaeto I bought form them could have been nitrate filled chaeto from someone else's tank ?!
I am thinking about bring them some and trading for some caluerpa just to try it.
What is everyone's thoughts ???!
grow it, harvest it, sell it. i do!
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
It needs to be able to move around in the fuge not be crammed in. If light is not getting to the center of the ball it is probably too crammed in. If water is not flowing though it, detritus is accumulating on it, cyano is growing on top it is probably too crammed in.
So harvest away!!!!
 
mastertech

mastertech

Member
Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/3176998
It needs to be able to move around in the fuge not be crammed in. If light is not getting to the center of the ball it is probably too crammed in. If water is not flowing though it, detritus is accumulating on it, cyano is growing on top it is probably too crammed in.
So harvest away!!!!
+1
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/3176998
It needs to be able to move around in the fuge not be crammed in. If light is not getting to the center of the ball it is probably too crammed in. If water is not flowing though it, detritus is accumulating on it, cyano is growing on top it is probably too crammed in.
So harvest away!!!!
Now wait one minute. when i asked you, your response was to taste it
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/3177043
I did say taste it, not this way though!!!!!

Ooh, yeah! All right!
We're jammin':
I wanna jam it wid you.
We're jammin', jammin',
And I hope you like jammin', too.
Ain't no rules, ain't no vow, we can do it anyhow:
I'n'I will see you through,
'Cos everyday we pay the price with a little sacrifice,
Jammin' till the jam is through.
We're jammin' -
To think that jammin' was a thing of the past;
We're jammin',
And I hope this jam is gonna last.
No bullet can stop us now, we neither beg nor we won't bow;
Neither can be bought nor sold.
We all defend the right; Jah - Jah children must unite:
Your life is worth much more than gold.
We're jammin' (jammin', jammin', jammin')
And we're jammin' in the name of the Lord;
We're jammin' (jammin', jammin', jammin'),
We're jammin' right straight from Yah.
Yeh! Holy Mount Zion;
Holy Mount Zion:
Jah sitteth in Mount Zion
And rules all creation.
Yeah, we're - we're jammin' (wotcha-wa),
Wotcha-wa-wa-wa, we're jammin' (wotcha-wa),
See, I wanna jam it wid you
We're jammin' (jammin', jammin', jammin')
I'm jammed: I hope you're jammin', too.
Jam's about my pride and truth I cannot hide
To keep you satisfied.
True love that now exist is the love I can't resist,
So jam by my side.
We're Jammin' (jammin', jammin', jammin'), yeah-eah-eah!
I wanna jam it wid you.
We're jammin', we're jammin', we're jammin', we're jammin',
We're jammin', we're jammin', we're jammin', we're jammin';
Hope you like jammin', too.
We're jammin', we're jammin' (jammin'),
We're jammin', we're jammin' (jammin').
I wanna (I wanna jam it wid you) - I wanna -
I wanna jam wid you now.
Jammin', jammin' (hope you like jammin' too).
Eh-eh! I hope you like jammin', I hope you like jammin',
'Cause (I wanna jam it wid you). I wanna ... wid you.
I like - I hope you - I hope you like jammin', too.
I wanna jam it;
I wanna jam it.
Ooh, yeah! All right!
We're jammin':
I wanna jam it wid you.
We're jammin', jammin',
And I hope you like jammin', too.
Ain't no rules, ain't no vow, we can do it anyhow:
I'n'I will see you through,
'Cos everyday we pay the price with a little sacrifice,
Jammin' till the jam is through.
We're jammin' -
To think that jammin' was a thing of the past;
We're jammin',
And I hope this jam is gonna last.
No bullet can stop us now, we neither beg nor we won't bow;
Neither can be bought nor sold.
We all defend the right; Jah - Jah children must unite:
Your life is worth much more than gold.
We're jammin' (jammin', jammin', jammin')
And we're jammin' in the name of the Lord;
We're jammin' (jammin', jammin', jammin'),
We're jammin' right straight from Yah.
Yeh! Holy Mount Zion;
Holy Mount Zion:
Jah sitteth in Mount Zion
And rules all creation.
Yeah, we're - we're jammin' (wotcha-wa),
Wotcha-wa-wa-wa, we're jammin' (wotcha-wa),
See, I wanna jam it wid you
We're jammin' (jammin', jammin', jammin')
I'm jammed: I hope you're jammin', too.
Jam's about my pride and truth I cannot hide
To keep you satisfied.
True love that now exist is the love I can't resist,
So jam by my side.
We're Jammin' (jammin', jammin', jammin'), yeah-eah-eah!
I wanna jam it wid you.
We're jammin', we're jammin', we're jammin', we're jammin',
We're jammin', we're jammin', we're jammin', we're jammin';
Hope you like jammin', too.
We're jammin', we're jammin' (jammin'),
We're jammin', we're jammin' (jammin').
I wanna (I wanna jam it wid you) - I wanna -
I wanna jam wid you now.
Jammin', jammin' (hope you like jammin' too).
Eh-eh! I hope you like jammin', I hope you like jammin',
'Cause (I wanna jam it wid you). I wanna ... wid you.
I like - I hope you - I hope you like jammin', too.
I wanna jam it;
I wanna jam it.
FYI it does get the paper wet unless you dry it out
 
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