Change out Live Sand

[osb]

I read somewhere here (of course i cant find it now) that you should chjnage out part of your live sand occasionally because it traps waste. I was under the impression that the reason for going with live sand was the organisims in it that break down waste as opposed to cc which traps it. Any thoughts? :notsure:

 

[az]

In any tank the clean up crew is the key to less maintanance for yourself. Your bottem will always look great if you have the critters that do that job. So a change out is not needed.
In fact over time you will need to add more for the water will leach out the sand. So you removing the sand should not happen your water will do it for you.

 

[salty cheese]

If you have a DSB, no. That will disturb the anaerobic levels in the sandbed and most likley cause a cycle. If you have a SSB then it is ok, though having sand cleaners to maintain the surface is much easier. :happyfish
AZ
Could you explain this "leaching" of the sand. :notsure:

 

[az]

SURE!
All live sand from the ocean is made from corals. Crushed up by waves fish or other natural things, even man.
So the sand as we call it is made from the elements of what corals need. As these element become depleted in the water a leaching effect will occure and disolve the substrate. In enough time the sand levels will decrease. And if you want to keep that level then you will have to add more LS. And in doing this it will give you new and needed in most cases animals and bio for your system.
This is why on some tanks if they do not have animals or something to move the top layer of the substrate it becomes hard and crusted. looks bad and to most is undesirable.

 

[salty cheese]

I've never heard of the sand in an aquarium disolving away, my sand level has not changed in 2 years. Calcium reactors leech calcium out of the media through the use of co2 but even then it does not dissolve the media completely, merely extracts the calcium.

 

[az]

well if something is taken away no matter what it is for something. What ever it was taken from gets small or less.
In 20 years of salt water I have lost in just 1 tank over 3 inches of substrate. And if this was also not the case the oceans would be over flowing with sedement that just runs into it. Let alone the coral pop that just dies. By now the great barrier reef would be a island by now if this part of the process did not happen. That reef every year dies and then is reborn again. And this has happened for a long time. This should not be hard to grasp for all element are a reuseable resource and the ocean does just this.

 

[salty cheese]

Are you sure the loss of substrate was not caused by erosion(sand that was kicked up by water circulation) and trapped in filters and such?
The ocean is in a constant state of flux, tons of sand is deposited and is removed for the worlds beaches everyday, so the argument that the oceans would fill up doesn't really hold water.(pun intended) :happyfish

 

[az]

Yes I am sure. There has been more then just myself in this world of salt water that has also experienced this grand thing. And I do not have a filter on my systems that would catch sand or substrate. If the substrate ever was to get into my pump system, something very bad would have happened and sand would be the least of my worries.

 

[salty cheese]

Originally Posted by AZ
Yes I am sure. There has been more then just myself in this world of salt water that has also experienced this grand thing. And I do not have a filter on my systems that would catch sand or substrate. If the substrate ever was to get into my pump system, something very bad would have happened and sand would be the least of my worries.

Granted I have only 3 years experience but I have never heard of this. You do not use any filters, not even a skimmer? How long have you been using a DSB?

 

[az]

Sorry Salty it is late here and I have not been on this site allot to know all the acronyms for all that peeps on this site use I am trying to get a full gasp. So bare with me. DSC's?
I use a natural filtration system that I have been testing and using for 15 plus years that I made from my time with salt water. So yes I do not use a protein skimmer as most of you use. Or a UV sterilizer either. Water stays just as clear and clean. Tests are not negative as most have trouble with. Fish get feed when I want to see then or show them to friends. But in all I scrape the glass for the coralline algae other wise I would not be able to see the reef. People that see it ask what I do and I tell them top off water do some water changes if needed and sit back and enjoy.
Set up a similar system for my brother and he has been running it for about 5 years now and has about the same turn out. Each tank is different and I have finished many others. Maybe someday I will have a method I would be able to explain better and people could do that would make sense for them to copy and use. But once I was setup very maintenance free and easy to maintain.

 

[salty cheese]

DSB= deep sand bed.
The sand that I and many aquarist use is calcium carbonate based and natural live is composed of the same material, maybe I'm wrong but if what you are saying is true wouldn't the rock in our tanks be dissolving also?

 

[az]

Not if it is live rock. Live rock grows it is alive. same as live corals. They add to their skeletons. But I do use as base rock from an old sea bed that helps me in keeping a proper calcium level in the tank. And if test result say I need to add something to the tank in other element I do so. Water changes are less then what most say to do. But my system is set up differently.
Yes I use a deep substrate in some tanks as deep as 6 inchs but I also use a plenum and a digger barrier. Depends on the size of the tank and what we plan on putting into this small eco system. Determins what I do.
Digger barrier is a barrier that the little critters I have to move and clean the substrate can not get through to get into the dead zone of my system. Not sure what other information your after but I can try and help with what I know. If I don't know or have not tried it I will tell you but as you well know many different ways to do things and in this field no difference.

 

[uberlink]

Originally Posted by AZ
SURE!
All live sand from the ocean is made from corals. Crushed up by waves fish or other natural things, even man.
I thought the chief constituent of sand was silica (SiO2), aka quartz, which lacks clear cleavage planes and is therefore less prone to fracture, and which is also relatively more chemically stable and less soluble in water than other minerals. I believe that over time coral and other less hard/more soluble minerals break down into ever smaller particles, whereas quartz--being more resistant to breakdown--remains more intact. It's true that Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3) is also another major constituent of sand in temperate ocean regions, but I dont think it's right that "all live sand from the ocean" is made from corals. I think it's pretty much normal ocean sand (SiO2, CaCO3, and other constituents), and the "live" refers to the fact that it's full of various microscopic organisms.
Originally Posted by AZ
Not if it is live rock. Live rock grows it is alive. same as live corals. They add to their skeletons.
I also thought "live rock" wasn't actually alive and growing but was typically made up of dead/fossilized coral rubble and referred to as "live" because it was so encrusted with living things. From about.com: "When talking about live rock (LR), it is a misconception that the rock itself is alive. What makes it live are the many forms of micro and macroscopic marine life that live on and inside of it. The rock itself is only made up of the calcium carbonate skeletons of long dead corals, or other calcareous organisms."

 

[clown52]

I am going to be getting a new tank in at the end of the month. Can I just move the sand from my current tank into it? My current tank has been set up for about a year and the sand bed is 1.5 to 2 inches deep.

 

[az]

Originally Posted by uberlink
I thought the chief constituent of sand was silica (SiO2), aka quartz, which lacks clear cleavage planes and is therefore less prone to fracture, and which is also relatively more chemically stable and less soluble in water than other minerals. I believe that over time coral and other less hard/more soluble minerals break down into ever smaller particles, whereas quartz--being more resistant to breakdown--remains more intact. It's true that Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3) is also another major constituent of sand in temperate ocean regions, but I dont think it's right that "all live sand from the ocean" is made from corals. I think it's pretty much normal ocean sand (SiO2, CaCO3, and other constituents), and the "live" refers to the fact that it's full of various microscopic organisms.
I also thought "live rock" wasn't actually alive and growing but was typically made up of dead/fossilized coral rubble and referred to as "live" because it was so encrusted with living things. From about.com: "When talking about live rock (LR), it is a misconception that the rock itself is alive. What makes it live are the many forms of micro and macroscopic marine life that live on and inside of it. The rock itself is only made up of the calcium carbonate skeletons of long dead corals, or other calcareous organisms."
There is different types of sand and silica is one of them...what is the confusion? Don't mix your verbage in the tank sociaty or just call it all crushed coral no matter the size!
Yes as long a living animals or coraline algae are on them, then form the skin and keep growing. Then it is said to be alive. yes this is know for lack of better words a misconception! If it is free of living material it is dead if living material is preseant it is alive what is the problem? Your point is not needed to just to argue when you can answer your own question and not even know it. Stay with in terms used and what is being said for or about the ocean. We are not talking about silica reefs now are we?

 

[az]

Originally Posted by Clown52
I am going to be getting a new tank in at the end of the month. Can I just move the sand from my current tank into it? My current tank has been set up for about a year and the sand bed is 1.5 to 2 inches deep.

Yep and should do fine.

 

[krisiks]

Hi AZ,
Is your tank a reef tank?? If yes can you tell me about your setup, because u said you are not using any filtration or protein skimmer. I am setting up a tank and I don't have a protein skimmer, but everyone said if I want a reef tank I will need protein skimmer.
Can you help me with my setup?
My email : krisiks@yahoo.com
Thanks.

 

[az]

yes all are reef systems that I own. Have set up alot of Fish only as well. Sent you a message. Hope to hear from you soon.