Changing Over to Sump

frog/lionman

frog/lionman

Member
I've been using a Fluval 305 and an AquaClear 110 on my tank. My Nitrates have been around 40ppm, ammo and nitrites 0ppm. I just aquired a sump 24 x 12 x 16. How many gallons would you estimate this can handle? I got no instructions or specifics on the sump.
Should I stop the other (2)filters cold turkey or keep them running?
75ga. tank w/ about 85lbs LR, 75lbs LS, Prizm Deluxe Protein Skimmer
Thanks
 
jimmy40741

jimmy40741

Member
A 24 x 12 x 16 is 20 gal and from what I have read that should be fine for a 75 gal tank. Of course everyone says the bigger the better, but if that's what you have then it should be ok. I guess the question about still using your other filters is up to you and what you have. Do you want to keep running mechanical filtration, is the sump set up for mechanical filtration, how much flow are you going to running through it, etc?
 
frog/lionman

frog/lionman

Member
how would I do a flood test. Is it by turning off the power to the return pump? I'm new to the whole sump deal, never had one. I was thinking of continuing running the fluval with just Chemi Pure media and no foam inserts.
Do you think I could use the Fluval as the return pump? By placing the pick up tube in the return section of the sump, and the discharge of the fluval returning to the display tank?
 
keebler

keebler

Member
Originally Posted by frog/lionman
http:///forum/post/2731473
how would I do a flood test. Is it by turning off the power to the return pump? I'm new to the whole sump deal, never had one. I was thinking of continuing running the fluval with just Chemi Pure media and no foam inserts.
Do you think I could use the Fluval as the return pump? By placing the pick up tube in the return section of the sump, and the discharge of the fluval returning to the display tank?
Mr. X is very smart with sumps, but I can help too. I will try my best to explain this, feel free to ask questions. No matter how stupid you may think they are. First thing is first, leak test your tank. This was one of the mistakes I made. I put my sump under the tank and filled it. It started to leak all over my powersupply and then I accidentally stepped on it without realizing that there was a leak and I shocked the crap out of myself. So leak test your sump in a garage or something first. This can be done just by filling it with any water, even tap because you will have to empty it before moving it under the display tank anyway. If you use a hob overflow, it should be floodproof, I have never seen one that isn't. I recommend filling the sump 2 inches from the top and then running the overflow. Once the tank empties enough that the overflow stops working, fill the sump the rest of the way to the line where the glass "ends." Now, you are halfway floodproof. Lets say that the electricity goes out, the return pump will stop working and the overflow will fill the sump up, but because of your precautions, not to the top. However, once the return pump stops working, all the water in the hose (of the return pump) will go back into the sump and cause a vaccuum, so the return pump will then become a vaccum and the sump will overflow. To prevent this, put a small hole in the return hose JUST above the water line, so when the power goes out, the hose will suck in air and not cause a vaccum. I hope that made sense, if it didn't, just say so.
 
jimmy40741

jimmy40741

Member
Keebler, don't you mean put a small hole in the return line just below the water level? If you put it above won't water be squirting out the hole as the return pump is running? By having it just below the water level it will siphon just down to the hole, then at that point air will be sucked through the hole breaking the syphon.
frog/lionman, the way I set my sump up was install the overflow and have the water level in the DT up to the edge of the overflow. With the pump off the return line will be empty and the line/s from the overflow will be empty. Then fill the sump to your desired height. That is the maximum amount of water that will be able to get into your sump if the power goes out. When you turn on your pump the lines fill with water and the level in your sump will drop. Mark the side of the sump at that water level, and that tells you the maximum amount of water you should have in your sump and still be safe if power goes out (returning the water in the lines back to your sump). When you top off your tank all you have to do is fill the sump back to the line you marked and you are safe.
 
keebler

keebler

Member

Originally Posted by Jimmy40741
http:///forum/post/2731948
Keebler, don't you mean put a small hole in the return line just below the water level? If you put it above won't water be squirting out the hole as the return pump is running? By having it just below the water level it will siphon just down to the hole, then at that point air will be sucked through the hole breaking the syphon.
frog/lionman, the way I set my sump up was install the overflow and have the water level in the DT up to the edge of the overflow. With the pump off the return line will be empty and the line/s from the overflow will be empty. Then fill the sump to your desired height. That is the maximum amount of water that will be able to get into your sump if the power goes out. When you turn on your pump the lines fill with water and the level in your sump will drop. Mark the side of the sump at that water level, and that tells you the maximum amount of water you should have in your sump and still be safe if power goes out (returning the water in the lines back to your sump). When you top off your tank all you have to do is fill the sump back to the line you marked and you are safe.
Yes, sorry it is below. You could put it above, but then it would probably spray the walls of your house. Sorry for the typo, make sure to put the hole below the water level.
 
N

nereef

Guest
1. yes, slightly below the water level in the dt. this gives an airlock to the return line, so if the pumps fails there won't be a backsyphon into the sump.
2. depends on what you are trying to accomplish by adding a sump. sumps can do many things : added water volume, hide equipment, filtration, nutrient export, refuge for pods to produce, even a seperate display of the sump itself.
 
srgvigil

srgvigil

Member
More water volume. Hey just a heads up it might take a while to get your intake flow and outake flow evened out. Took me about 30 minutes to get them equalibrium
 
frog/lionman

frog/lionman

Member
How do you get them evened out? Remember I have never had a sump, need all the help I can get. My goal is to get my Nitrates lower, I do weekly 10% waterchanges and still my nitrates are around 40ppm everyday. I would like to get them near zero if possible.
Thanks, Lionman
 
keebler

keebler

Member
Originally Posted by frog/lionman
http:///forum/post/2732921
How do you get them evened out? Remember I have never had a sump, need all the help I can get. My goal is to get my Nitrates lower, I do weekly 10% waterchanges and still my nitrates are around 40ppm everyday. I would like to get them near zero if possible.
Thanks, Lionman
If you get a sump, you should have a section for a refugium. A good aquarists doesn't ask, "How can I fix this problem?" they ask, "What is causing this problem?" Before you just up and start fixing the trate problem, try to figure out what is causing it. Do you need to switch foods or feed less? In any case, getting a sump that is prefiltered and has askimmer, some baffles (the sheets of glass that go in the sump), some live sand, live rock, and macroalgae (cheato seems to be this forum's #1 choice), and a light would make for the best form of filtration.
 
srgvigil

srgvigil

Member
Originally Posted by frog/lionman
http:///forum/post/2732921
How do you get them evened out? Remember I have never had a sump, need all the help I can get. My goal is to get my Nitrates lower, I do weekly 10% waterchanges and still my nitrates are around 40ppm everyday. I would like to get them near zero if possible.
Thanks, Lionman
The way you get them evened out is to get your intake flow to match your pumps outtake. To little intake and the pump will suck up all the water. To much intake and the sump will overflow. What type of intake are you going to have? (Such as just a tube or is it going to be pvc pipes.
 
keebler

keebler

Member
Okay, lets clear something up really fast. If you use an hob overflow, then you will need to get one that has a higher maximum gph rate than the pump. The overflow can automatically adjust to any rate that is lower than its maximum. That was a bit foggy, let's rephrase that. Gallons per hour or gph is the amount of gallons a pump will pump in an hour. So lets say your pump is 200 gph, then your overflow will have to be more than that in order to keep up. So lets say the overflow is 250, then your gold, the overflow will adjust to the pump when properly installed and it will be 200 just like the pump. However, if your pump is 250 and your overlow is 180, then your overflow won't be able to keep up and the main tank will overflow. By the way, I honestly recommend buying half this stuff used because it isn't that hard to find a used piece of equipment for a fraction of the price that works just as well.
 
N

nereef

Guest
Originally Posted by SrgVigil
http:///forum/post/2733192
The way you get them evened out is to get your intake flow to match your pumps outtake. To little intake and the pump will suck up all the water. To much intake and the sump will overflow. What type of intake are you going to have? (Such as just a tube or is it going to be pvc pipes.
i'm confused by this statement. are you saying that if the overflow is rated higher than the return pump, the sump will overflow? this is not true. the overflow will only go as fast as the return pump can fill the display tank.
to even out the return pump and overflow, you just have to get an overflow that can handle more than your return pump is pumping.
 
keebler

keebler

Member
Originally Posted by NEreef
http:///forum/post/2733207
i'm confused by this statement. are you saying that if the overflow is rated higher than the return pump, the sump will overflow? this is not true. the overflow will only go as fast as the return pump can fill the display tank.
to even out the return pump and overflow, you just have to get an overflow that can handle more than your return pump is pumping.
My point exactly, they can't be rated the same, then you risk the pump being just a little bit stronger than the overflow and that could be a disaster. The overflow must have a higher rating.
 
frog/lionman

frog/lionman

Member
Thanks, "keebler" this sump is used I bought it from this forum. you can see it, check "1knight164" posting for a look at the sump/overflow. Now how would I set up the filter to be able to remove the canister filter and the HOB aquaclear.
 
morval

morval

Member
Originally Posted by Keebler
http:///forum/post/2733216
My point exactly, they can't be rated the same, then you risk the pump being just a little bit stronger than the overflow and that could be a disaster. The overflow must have a higher rating.
thos is incorrect. i just set up my sump last month and i made the mistake of getting a overflow reated at 500gph and a pump at 500gph this led to draining more than i was returning. the reaasason for this is head loss. so you need to get a pump rated higher than the overflow. luckily i had installed ball valves on both my overflow and return so i was able toeven them out but in the future i will be getting a stronger pump
 
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