check out my hair algae...

cgrant

Active Member
I am reading this thread but dont see any params listed, I had hair algae bad in my 210 and it took ~5 weeks to be totally gone.
List your params!!!
I bumped up the alk and that will also help slow it down, my calcium reactor bumps my alk up to 11-12 dkh on any given day, it wont hurt your tank!
Something is feeding the hair, you need to figure out what it is.
On my 210 it was the 35 gallon brute garbage can, I didnt notice i had an ever so slow leak in my bathroom shower that was dripping into the water change container, i was standing next to the water change tub and got hit in the head by a drop of water while the wife was taking a shower, looked up and saw a spot of black mold on the floor board above that was dripping ever so slowly into my water change tub. So my point to this it could be just about anything and not easy to find.
Let me know what your params are and i will try to help!
 

sjimmyh

Member
I think TX is on the right path with nutrient in the rock assisting your algae problem. Here are some things to help that I do short of "cooking" my rock.
During water changes, I siphon directly off the rock with a small hose (not the large sand/bottom sifting ends found on a store bought siphon or python). The small end assists with velocity of the water being siphoned off and tends to get more of the crud.
Use of a squirting device to loosten junk and debris inside rock holes and nooks to get it into the water column to maximize my water change.
Disolved organics is prob the underlying factor in your problem. Using the techniques above while still using a large end syphon to clean the top layers of your sand bed will help control this.
I personally think you are doing insufficient water changes for your tank. Some may argue, we all get success in different ways and some things work on one tank while not working on another. I tend to agree with some authors that although small water changes on a frequent basis do wonders for stability and for keeping trace elements available for your tank, they don't do very well with keeping disolved organics down and removing impurities.
My opinion is that you should keep facts in mind. One fact, algae is always due to too much of something accumulating in your tank (PO4, NO3, Silica, DO, etc). Fact, there is only one "sure" fire remedy to prevent this. Do water changes with water that you KNOW doesnt have these impurities in them. If you are doing this then my logic says... Great, you must not be doing it ENOUGH. Increase moderately until you find what works in THAT tank. It's prob nothing YOU are doing since your other tanks dont have the same issue so stop beating yourself up.
My recommendation, do a large water change once a month while doing small ones every week. In my old 125 gal tank, I did 5% a week with one 25-30% a month with decent success. In my 65 gal tank, I didn't have to do this much... I did 10% every couple weeks and had absolutely NO micro algae growth at all.
Remember, even with good flow pockets of mung and crud can build up. If you see them, ALWAYS suck em out in your water changes.
I hope this helps.
 

jerthunter

Active Member
I used to have a horrible hair algae problem so I know the feeling. I tried different things and it just kept getting worse. I found that most of the inverts I had wouldn't eat the stuff until it started to die. When I added some chaeto and did a larger water change (maybe 20%) I noticed the hair algae was starting to die off and the snails mowed right through it. I did another water change and a bunch of the hair algae came right off the rock and got sucked up and away.
It seems to me that you on the right track, since your macro algae turned white I'd remove the parts that look bad, do a large water change while trying to suck out as much of the hair algae with a hose and get ready to do another water change in a few days. If this works then you can get back to normal water changes. 10% water changes are good for maintaining water parameters but if you have excessive nutrients it does little to reduce them significantly. Try two 20-25% water changes and see if that helps.
 

townsdp

Member
Sounds good. I use to use a spatula to blow around stuff from behind and in my rock in my other tanks. I don't on this tank. I suck up the top layer of sand and suck up every accessible area of my rock which sucks alot of hair algae off. I will try to do a couple large water changes and I will get a new trash can that I use for water changes. I did 10% water changes every 3 days for about a month before and it seemed to stop growing for a while but did not die off at all. I don't know. I don't have a test kit for silicate or phosphate right now so I will try to get one and test my ro/di water after its mixed in the trash can. My rock is covered in small shrooms and zoos, etc so I really don't think I can "cook" the rock. The excess nutrients have been steadily coming in for 8-9 months now so it is obviously something Im putting in. If it was something "in" the tank from the beginning it should have died down by now. The wierd thing is I never had algae until I got 1 little turbo snail from my lfs with hair algae on his shell. Thought it was cute until it started to spread about 3 weeks later. Damn snail. got a busy weekend of cleaning and mixing salt ahead of me. Thanks for all the input.
 

sjimmyh

Member
Towns, I want to make sure you understand what I was trying to explain. The way you stated you did 10% water changes every three days (like it was enough) makes me wonder.
Doing a small water change obviously does not dilute as much as a larger. But let me explain further.
Doing a small water change very frequently does not necessarily dilute as much as one large water change. (i.e. three 10% water changes in a week does not equivilate to a 30% water change in a week)
Here is the skinny. Larger water changes allow you more time in one evolution to remove more crud (poop, decay, detritus, etc...). This does actually make a bit of difference if you spend your time siphoning trying to maximize the amount of this stuff you remove. This, in my opinion, makes them logically slightly more effecient in that during the days between your small water changes you build up stuff that again needs to be removed... therefore you don't have as much time to get the stuff you left last time (because your waste bucket filled up and you had to stop, or you reached the mark on your tank that lets you know you reached your stopping point)
Think of it like this. I have a dog, he sheds. For whatever reason, it has built up to a level that I no longer want. If I limit myself to 10 min of vacuuming every three days, I would never get the majority of his hair on the floor in one 10 min period. Three days later, I would have ten minutes, but if I start in the same location as before I would actually have to vacuum up the new stuff before I could get to the old stuff I missed last time. Effectively giving me a little less than 10 min to continue where I left off. Get the picture? Now, if I just give myself 30 min to begin with I can get just about all the hair. Next time around, as long as I keep up a good maintenance practice and don't wait too long between vacuums and don't limit myself to only vacuuming a portion of the floor at a time, I should even be able to get the entire floor in less than the 30 min it took me last time.
You need to find out what time you need to give yourself to get all the hair off the floor. Metaphorically, of course.
Also, your disolved organics or phosphate or whatever your nutrient is that is growing this stuff is not reduced as much in one water change when you do a small one. It also builds back up between the times you do them. Its basically the same "dog hair" principle. You are not going to lower these nutrients as fast with frequent small water changes as you will with doing the equal percentage in one shot.
I doubt your snail was the end cause. I have never seen a tank with hair algae issues that didn't have a corresponding nutrient issue.
So, why does this tank have a nutrient issue when your others dont? It could be tank over loading, your refugium is too small (you need a larger field of macro algae), you have mechanical filtration that is not getting cleaned or changed often enough, your water source is bad (though this would most likely show in other tanks and not be isolated assuming you are using the same water for all tanks), you are not providing enough good nutrients for the macro algae to thrive (iron, iodine), your live rock had large amounts of debris and dead organisms down deep inside of it that has just been leaching out organics (this is what TX is recommending you remove with his/her "cooking" technique) over time, a combination of more than one of these... I could go on.
Whatever your underlying problem is (which I DO encourage you to try to find out) water changes is an answer to remove the symptom (algae). If you feel you had to, I would not hesitate to do a complete water change. Just take care to re acclimate your livestock and do not allow your sand/gravel and rock to dry out (or your bacteria will die and you will recycle the tank). Do your best to ensure you get your new water close to the old in all the appropriate parameters if not exact and acclimate the livestock as if they were brand new. Due to some risks from increased stress, possible loss of your "attatched to rock" corals, zoos, etc. I would not do this as a first choice. It depends on how bad your algae is to you and if its growth is hurting your livestock.
Longwinded, I know, but I tend to drive home my points (or beat a dead horse, depending on your viewpoint
)
 

sjimmyh

Member
Oh, my whole theory on the water changes being the answer goes down the tubes if your water source is bad. So, before you go hog wild... test it and see.
 

cgrant

Active Member
I missed the part of this post about your "ro/di water with a 004 TDS reading"
IMO...that's a sign of a problem with your ro/di, my ro/di water is 000, my ro drinking water that i make for home use is 003.
Take a good look at your ro/di unit, i have a airwaterice typhoon3 and filters are 6 months old, get 000 tds ro/di every time.
your di should be taking everything out but it is not?
I think thats a good start anyway...I have strong reservations about cooking the LR...something about paying all that $$$ for LR and then cooking it just dont sit well with me but thats just my opinion and if you dont solve the main issue it will just come back again.
If it was me i would get your ro/di making 000 again and see if that helps any.
 

lucky?

Member
I've got 1 thing to say ... i saw your post and had to read but got overwhelmend with the responses. JUST DON'T GIVE UP!!! i fought a worse prob in a 240 absolutlEy covered 2 to 4 inches deep OF MY ROCKLS oF disgusting hair crap. email me at lynnkris44@yahoo.com if your still working on it i'm A SLOW TYPER and my method might help or might not but I KILLED IT COMPLETLEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! More flow and changes/ refuge/ effort/ desire. SOUNDS CRAZY BUT IT WORKS!!!!!
 

lucky?

Member
My tank was so bad I could not see any rock surface just algae everywhere. NO DISRESPECT TO ANYONE WHO HAS REPLIED TRYING TO HELP BUT I HATE THIS ALGAE!!!!! just want to give the orig post somone to help who's had it bad
 

townsdp

Member
well, is a 004 reading for tds in my water sound bad? I really don't know. I just looked into ordering a test for phosphate and silicate so that should shed some light. Normally my 10% water changes are only so because Im limited to how much I get in the bucket. My ro/di unit only puts out about 2g per 1.5 hr so it takes a little while to fill my 12g water change bucket. And Im limited to 12g. I will get another bucket so I can double my water change capacity. I like the large water change idea so I will try this weekend. I completely change all prefilters and clean my skimmer and overflow every weekend. My concern I have had the 170 lbs of lr for over 3 yrs or so. But in my last 75g, a faulty surge protector caused a fire blowing the tank. The rock covered in ash and was back in new water within a couple hours and then "cured" by itself without livestock for almost 2 yrs with a few ph and like 3 hob filters going constantly and monthly water changes with constant top-offs. The rock was growing feather dusters and some other stuff like tunicates and sponges under actinics by itself so I finally got everything setup with all new tank, ph, skimmer, etc. It cycled yet again in the new tank with a clown fish and firefish. Everything went fine with clear water and normal growth until the hair algae started. I considered the rock might have embedded nutrients from the ash but after 2 yrs of curing, complete water changes, and a new yr old tank, I don't see how it could still be leaching so much.
 

cgrant

Active Member
I am not 100% sure what tds is exactly acceptable?
I can tell you from what I have read ro/di water should be 0 and that mine is.
I live i nw indiana and our water isnt the greatest, alot of our neighbers get bottled water delivered and sometimes have to wonder why?
I think our subdivision should get stock options from ice mountain!
 

townsdp

Member
CGRANT said something about water dripping in the tub. After I do water changes, I wash out my bucket with regular tap from the hose and turn it over to dry. After a couple hours, I put it up but it still has some drops of water in it. Could phosphates be leaching into the busket from that? I use a sterilite trash can from wal-mart. Just a thought.
 

cgrant

Active Member
I use brute trash cans for mixing so not sure about the walmart ones?
my shower had sprung a leak and the leak was dripping into my brute mixing can, it was a very slow leak but still caused me major issues with my tank from the water changes and that crud dripping into it.
home depot and lowes has the 35 gallon brute trash cans fairly cheap, I know those are safe. I would still check your ro/di.
 
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