Chemistry Concern.

[shane784]

I've got a 20 gallon tall.
+20 lbs live rocks
156 watt quad T5 fixture (10K,actinic,purple,light purple)
algae filter
AQUEON 500 GPG circ pump
2 clowns
1 mandarin
cleaner shrimp
snail.
LOTS of softies/lps
2 sps frags
5 gallon water change every Friday
Ca 480
kH 8-9
pH 8.0
Ammo 0
NI 0
NA 0
SPS FRAGS ARE BROWN. WTF??

 

[snakeblitz33]

Phos level? Anything above 0.05 phos levels tend to brown out sps corals.
Are your parameters consistent?

 

[snakeblitz33]

By the way, what makes you think its a chemistry problem? Did you buy them with color?

 

[shane784]

I bought them off eBay, so that might be the problem... also i dont test for phosphate so that might be #2... i also notice all my other corals have reached a plateau effect. i am consistent with the water changes and algae harvesting. i began testing calcium and alkalinity as of friday and to my surprise my levels seem good. i bought 2part also as to begin dosing, but my levels have been the same since friday?? Ca - 480, kH - 8-9, pH 7.9-8.0, i thought maybe it was a CO2 problem so ive since aimed my circ pump at the surface to try and aid.

 

[shane784]

and this dendro has yet to poke his head out. added it 2 weeks ago!

 

[snakeblitz33]

What are you feeding? How much? What salt are you using? Were those frags brown when you bought them? What test kits are you using? Do you have a low range phos test? Do you have a magnesium test kit? Whats your water temp? Is it consistant? Are your bulbs brand name? How old are your bulbs? Where are your sps placed? Water flow?
????? Just need to know these basics before we can really speculate.

 

[shane784]

I feed a few flakes 1-2 times a day. I use Reef crystals for water changes. the frags were not brown when I got them in, they lost color during shipping. all my tests are API (upgrading soon to all Hanna Checker) and my Alkalinity test is Tropic Marin. I do not have a phos or mag test. my temp range is about 74-77. my bulbs are Wave Point brand and are all old :/. the 2 frags I have are at 2 of the highest points and for flow I have 1 Aqueon 500 gph and maxijet 900 powering a algae filter.

 

[snakeblitz33]

More than likely your ebay frags were brown when they shipped. Frags do not brown out during shipping.
Water changes are a must. Get good test kits. Add a skimmer to your system. Upgrade your light bulbs to ati or uvl brand bulbs. Buy bulbs before test kits. Make sure your tank is topped off daily and that you maintain a low bioload.
If you keep up with water changes and upgrade your bulbs they may color up some. Just have to try some things here and there and see what works.

 

[shane784]

Ok will do. actually upgrading to a 120W LED fixture by the end of this month.. would 16K @ 120W sustain any kind of SPS?

 

[snakeblitz33]

I'm just not sold on blue/white LEDs just yet. I feel like a pure blue and pure white spectrum is lacking in spectrums that most corals like - especially SPS corals. Most SPS corals live in the upper 10 meters of water - which makes them for the most part "shallow water" species which have adapted to using red, green, cyan and to some degree UV light in order to maintain growth and coloration. So, I'm just not sold yet on blue and white LEDs as the sole light sources over a tank. As far as ANY kind of SPS... I don't really know. You will have to ask someone else who has the same unit you are looking at and ask how long they have been using it. Generally if their corals haven't died or lost coloration after 8 weeks of use then I'd say it's a mild success.

 

[shane784]

So what would be your suggestion for a 20 gal tank such as mine. I wanna be able to grow anything.. I was looking at a cheap MH fixture on ebay that looked worth it to be a first timer. 18" 1x150W. 14K HQI + 2 14W t5.. or a 24" 1x 250W 15K HQI + 4x24 w t5

 

[snakeblitz33]

Without going overboard with an ai vega, id say that a diy led kit from rapidled may be the better choice as far as leds are concerned. If you already have a t5 unit, replace the bulbs with brand name and if you still want some deep blue shimmer consider adding a reefbright 24" xho led unit to the side of your t5 fixture. Thats what i would do.
In fact i have 4 t5s over my 75g and i still need more light so i am buying two reefbrites for the extra par. The t5s is where my extra spectrum comes into play, not solely relying on the leds.

 

[shane784]

So tell me about this AI VEGA

 

[btldreef]

Get better bulbs and test kits.
How old is this setup?
I've done EBay frags, they're always brown. The sellers will claim that they "browned out in shipping" but it takes longer than that. They can make a come back as long as they haven't turned white or shed their skin.
What types of SPS did you purchase?
Also, do you run carbon?
Do you have leathers?

 

[snakeblitz33]

AI Vega's are made by Aqua Illumination (AI) which is a reputable company. they have been around for more then just a couple of years like other led lighting companies. The vega has all kinds of neat features and gizmo's that allow you to control it to the max. It's also highly controllable and upgradeable through their upgrades, as well as an Apex controller. You should look at some YouTube videos of it and read some specs on their website and what-not before paying the $500 price tag.
A small DIY LED unit from rapidLED might be a cost saving alternative - and a fun project for the family - if you have the time and a canopy.

 

[btldreef]

On a tank that size, I agree, DIY from rapidled if you're handy. If not, look into the light Snaje suggested or look at AcanLighting LEDs. I know the owner, have seen the shop, etc. they're made not that far from me so many people in my reef club have them. They are excellent lights.

 

[novahobbies]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/394477/chemistry-concern#post_3511166
I'm just not sold on blue/white LEDs just yet. I feel like a pure blue and pure white spectrum is lacking in spectrums that most corals like - especially SPS corals. Most SPS corals live in the upper 10 meters of water - which makes them for the most part "shallow water" species which have adapted to using red, green, cyan and to some degree UV light in order to maintain growth and coloration. So, I'm just not sold yet on blue and white LEDs as the sole light sources over a tank. As far as ANY kind of SPS... I don't really know. You will have to ask someone else who has the same unit you are looking at and ask how long they have been using it. Generally if their corals haven't died or lost coloration after 8 weeks of use then I'd say it's a mild success.
Let me chime in here and add my 2 cents.....I have 2 CCLED fixtures with just blue and white leds. Epistars. I am seeing good growth on my SPS, but coloration is just mediocre at best. They haven't browned, but they are paler colors than when I first got them. I intend on adding a few 3w 660nm red LEDs, a couple greens, and a couple UVs as well. After doing a smattering of online research, I am positive that the 660nm reds are beneficial for Chlorophyll A processing, but the coral pigments themselves will need just a little green light added as well. The UV may be more for my benefit than the tanks, just for color, but I am adding it for experimental purposes.
You can see some of the SPS growth - and color issues - in the recent pics I posted on my 110g diary.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Yeah, that's kind of what I was saying - blue and white LEDs only seem to wash out the colors pretty bad. Shallow water corals tend to require full spectrum lighting to have the best shot and displaying their true colors. If they make them, a neutral white or a warm white and royal blue or just actinic blue LEDs have been shown to keep some colors. Although, I have found through my studies on the subject that you will need a full spectrum of light to keep most corals. Plus, I like a more 10k look for SPS corals in general - they tend to show better coloration over time.
I didn't want to put halides over my current tank because of the huge amount of heat that is added to the system - so I chose to go with a couple of ReefBrite strips that will probably do just as good of a job - and then the T5's will fill in the gaps as far as spectrum is concerned.

 

[novahobbies]

Agreed on the MHs. Even with LEDs lighting my tank, I'm in the 79-80 range without trying. But then, I'm sure that's my crappy old aquatraders return pump causing that heat.

 

[btldreef]

Just a thought: I have on blue and white and have great color and growth. People that have come to see my tank are convinced that I have colored LEDs until I open the canopy and show them. Maybe I'm lucky. Maybe my tank isn't the norm. But my husband has built fixtures for many people and most do not do the additional colors and end up with the sane results I've had. He has built fixtures with the additional colors and when I test them on my tank , I'm left unimpressed.
A note about UV: I'm not sold that its safe. Lets think about it, metal halide double ended bulbs produce great UV. And we put a uv filtered glass between them and our corals