cichlids in saltwater...

[trigger40]

you all know saltwater's opposite, freshwater aquariums. well its well known that ciclids can thrive in brackish water aquariums and tend to do better in them than full freshwater aquariums. so knowing that the thought of maybe acclimating one to full saltwater drove a few people to actually doing it. and with a few cichlid species such as the jack dempsey, demasoni, most peacocks and the albino african cichlid made it to full saltwater(32 ppt). reading this on an article online inspired me to try it. first i needed a small tank wher i could add a small amount of salt to the tank and have a larg change in salinity. so i chose a 2.5 gallon tank. i also chose the demasoni be one of the more aggresive cichlids so that when acclimation is complet it will survive with my triggerfish. acclimating the cichlid is a long process to acclimate the cichlid because you rase the salinity 1 ppt every two days.

so rasing the salinity to 28 ppt(that was the salinity of my tank) took a long time and it was very streesfull to the fish but it made it. i then kept the fish at the desierd salinity for about 4 days to rebuild his strength and made shur he was eating befor i added him to the main tank so when i added him he was in great health and active and eating like a monster. so then the day came and i ploped him in and then wached.

for the first few miniots he swam around exploring the live rock he cheacked out the eel and the hermet crabs interacted with the damsel i had. and swam to the other side of the and at the time i was so happy . he then discover the trigger and thats when things went down hill... and FAST. he decided to attack the trigger! and the trigger wasent even bothering him. well any way the demasoni got the first blow and after that i have never seen my trigger so mad befor!

he took off half of its pectoral fin befor the cichlid decided to retreat the fish was they get ther fins niped all the time but the cichlid wasnt done yet! this time when the cichlid went over he decided he was going to lock jaws with my triggerfish(cichlids locking jaws is wher they bite ther opponents jaw and push the other fish around who ever gives up first losses) and when this happend the triggerfish bit the cichlids lower jaw clean off. at this pint i was racing to get the fish out while the trigger and cichlid continued to fight. and it was bad when i got the cichlid out. it was missing most of its fins and got bit bad by its dorsal fin. so i got it out and put right back into my freshwater aquarium. in a day it was acting normal even with its injuries. it died two weeks lator from an infection.

i tried it agen with a yellow labracromis cichlid but it didnot survive the acclimation. i still think the idea of having an angle fish swim with a cichlid is awsome and ther have ben people who have done is successfully and not had compatabilaty issues. it would be cool to be able to stock your tank with cool, very hardy, cheap fish and im pritty shur cichlids are reef safe. oh well i trid this a while ago and it didnt work so maybe its time ta acclimate a lionfish to full freshwater! yea a little girl in south florida did it on accident i beleav and its actualy true!

 

[2quills]

This begs the question that just because something can be done, should it be done?

I only say that since the claim was made about cichlids being able to thrive better in brackish water vs all fresh. It stands to reason in regards to full salt that the same would be true?

Just a thought.

I had always kept my cichlid tanks brackish. Rumor always seemed to have it that they were less prone to illness when you targeted perameters closer to their natural habitats.

But it does make you wonder since there are species out there (like bull sharks) that are capable of swimming up freshwater rivers for hundreds of miles.

However, adeptations in nature typically happen over longer periods of time. Hundreds or thousands of years vs a few days, weeks or months.

.02

 

[trigger40]

yes i do agree that we should not rush natures procsess by shoving them into conditions they shouldent be in eventhough it works. also the only reason the african cichlids can do it because the conditions of the lakes they are caught from. and i have no idea what affect it has on the fish and and/or how long they can live in it. but you can only find out if you try, so more studying on this is definitetly needed.


now i have something els thats interesting.

in south florida around the miami are ther have ben a few isolated sightings of the fresh water jack dempsey spoted on artificial reefs in the atlantic ocean close to inlets wher south florida's inland water ways deposite. they hypothesize that they enter saltwater this for similar reasons the aligator gar does it. wich is to heal wounds they receave in river that they are from so maybe its good for them to be in saltwater, but i still dont know. the mayan cichlid in florida perfers saltwater or brackish water over fresh.

that might provide answers.

 

[2quills]

Getting one's jaw and fin ripped off doesn't sound like it worked as hoped. The salinity thing is pretty simple. If fish experience changes in that regard naturally then it stands to reason they should be able to adapt to a targeted range better than others.

I live near a bay where the conditions are brackish. There are many species that make the journy in and out of the bay daily. So they experience a change in density. But not all species who live off the coast come into the bay.

The Dempsy chichlids can pretty much survive in run off and drainage ditches. They are practically cockroaches in their own right.

A yellow lab from lake Malawi in Africa may be another story it seems.

Follow the fish and you will find your answer.

 

[trigger40]

yes i was hoping that they would get along but the cichlid thought he was bigger than he really was. i used to have a jack dempsey. he would do everything my oscar would do and not anything he wouldent he was waiting to overthrough the oscar lol. but yes i did fail horribly and do not plan to try agen. i just wanted to share incase any one els wanted to give it a go. and most of the sport fish im my area can go full fresh even though they usually dont. i would try agen but i only have two more cichlids left.

 

[geridoc]

This begs the question that just because something can be done, should it be done?

I only say that since the claim was made about cichlids being able to thrive better in brackish water vs all fresh. It stands to reason in regards to full salt that the same would be true?

Just a thought.

I had always kept my cichlid tanks brackish. Rumor always seemed to have it that they were less prone to illness when you targeted perameters closer to their natural habitats.

But it does make you wonder since there are species out there (like bull sharks) that are capable of swimming up freshwater rivers for hundreds of miles.

However, adeptations in nature typically happen over longer periods of time. Hundreds or thousands of years vs a few days, weeks or months.

.02

Sharks are a different story - they handle water and salt balance differently from bony fish. Sharks have an internal salt concentration much lower than in in seawater, which means that salt tends to diffuse into their bodies. That being said, sharks actually have a total dissolved material concentration that is equal to seawater. They do this by manufacturing urea, which keeps the osmotic concentration of the blood equal to the surrounding water, so that while salt is moving across their gills, water does not. Since urea is very deleterious to proteins, sharks also make another molecule (TMAO) which stabilizes the other proteins in the blood, protecting them from urea.

 

[2quills]

Sharks are a different story - they handle water and salt balance differently from bony fish. Sharks have an internal salt concentration much lower than in in seawater, which means that salt tends to diffuse into their bodies. That being said, sharks actually have a total dissolved material concentration that is equal to seawater. They do this by manufacturing urea, which keeps the osmotic concentration of the blood equal to the surrounding water, so that while salt is moving across their gills, water does not. Since urea is very deleterious to proteins, sharks also make another molecule (TMAO) which stabilizes the other proteins in the blood, protecting them from urea.

Would this be true for salmon or some of the other osmoregulators?

 

[geridoc]

Would this be true for salmon or some of the other osmoregulators?

No, this is unique to sharks, rays and other cartilaginous fish.

 

[2quills]

No, this is unique to sharks, rays and other cartilaginous fish.

It appears this process is considered Osmoconformation vs Osmoregulation in bony fish.

I've given up on eating shark meat do to the potential concentrations of murcury. But when I did it was a widely popular method to soak (cure) the meat due to the urea excrement causing a bad taste otherwise.

My limited research on this matter however seems to be that the African Cichlids most widely kept by hobbyist don't osmoregulate very well. And that the higher concentrations of magnesium in sea water may have a detrimental effect.

My .02

 

[CFD Demokonto]

Maybe this thread could be intersting for you!