clams & nitrates....

[pashari]

I was at the LFS picking up some salt and was talking with some of the workers. Explained I was having high nitrates and doing 10% changes every other day trying to bring them down (which, by the way, is this okay????).
Anyway, she offered to sell me some "clams" that are suppose to help with a nitrate problem.
I have a FOWLR tank, 60 gal, 3.5 y/o. My substrate is CC (don't want to debate this one as I like the way it looks) about a medium size.
Is it a good idea to invest in these clams? I'm assuming these are the same as these cleaner clams on this site. I understand they bury themselves in the substrate. Will the bury themselves in CC?
If it is a good idea - how many for my size tank? How do you know if they are alive or dead if they bury themselves?
Also, she had some mangrove shoots about 6 - 8 inches tall. Could I add a few of these to my tank???? In the LFS they are 100% submerged, I do have open space for them to grow out if they need to.
Thanks!!!!!
lisa

 

[djevack]

I would worry about why your levels are high first. Its not good to have such high levels that water changes every other day aren’t doing the job. Normally high levels mean overfeeding, overstocking, or under filtration. I know you don’t want to bring it up but CC is not a very good substrate for tanks. They trap and build up waste which leads to high levels.
As for help lowering, I recommend removal not process or waste. That means high water movement and a high quality protein skimmer. Another good way if a refugium, in there you can add some Chaetomorpha algae. It feeds on nitrates, phosphates, and other harmful subsidence. As it grows it basically traps these subs dances, from there you cut and trim thus removal.

 

[ktsdad]

To answer your orginal question.....I have used clams in my FOWLER tank before.
Do they lower the nitrates - I don't know I didn't have a nitrate problem when i put them in. I thought it would be cool to have then in the tank, I didn't realize they bury themselves. A bunch of money for a bunch of clams that I never saw! Yes the clams will bury themselves in CC if it is deep enough.
My 60 FOWLER has CC and Bio Balls! I still never have a nitrate problem.
The key is to keep them clean. When I do water changes, I vacumm my CC real well. Every few months I take out my bio balls and wash them in salt water then clean out the chamber.
I agree you need to find the source of the nitrates, then take action to prevent the build up again.
(I didn't see that you posted any numbers so I will make some up for an example.)
10% water changes may not help. Simple math. If you have 80ppm of nitrates, then you do a 10% water change, you are only removing 8ppm from the original level, so now you are at 72ppm (still way to high). If you have something adding nitrate (dead fish, excess food, dirty filter pads, dirty CC or dirty bio ball chamber just a few examples) then you may not see any difference since it is returning as fast as you are taking it out.
Just my $.02
Good Luck

 

[pashari]

I think my problem is over feeding and not caring for my CC substrate properly. As I said, the tank is 3.5 y/o and I've really not vacuumed the CC thoroughly when I did my water changes. Also, I don't have much of a clean-up crew, just 4 turbo's, about 10 blue-legged hermits, and emerald crab and a decorator crab.
I'm hoping to do the 10% water changes daily until I do get the nitrates down. I've been vacuuming the CC substrate pretty well - doing small sections at a time. I realize it may take me weeks to do this, but if its built up so high over a course of 3+ years, it's going to take time to get it down.
As all my other levels are fine (ph - 8.2, nitrite - 0, ammonia - 0) I don't want to do a 50%+ water change and disrupt or shock my tank. The only real evidence of problems is my tang who may be suffering from HLLE.
What about the mangroves? I don't have a sump - just 70 lbs of LR and a cannister from some assisted mechanical filtration. Can I put the mangroves in the tank. They are 100% submerged at the LFS and would be so in my tank as well. But I do have space for them to grow out as the top of my tank is not completely covered.
Thanks for the input. I understand about the LSB, but they have problems of their own and I think that if I start to care for the CC properly I should be okay.
If you get a chance, let me know about the mangroves....
lisa
ps. I'd love to get a refugime (sp?) set up but I don't have a sump. Not quite sure how to set one up and incorporate a skimmer while doing this change. $$$$ is also holding me up as I'm a SAHM and I'm not sure my hubby would appreciate the added expense right now. My birthday is in September so there is that, but I was going to ask for a nano cube so I could dabble in some coral.......

 

[1journeyman]

Mangroves will not really help your nitrate problem that much. They grow fairly slowly and therefore do not export enough polution from the water.
Sounds like you are on the right track. Just vaccuum your CC good and keep it clean. (Or join the dark side and go with sand :thinking: )

 

[djevack]

Originally Posted by pashari
ps. I'd love to get a refugime (sp?) set up but I don't have a sump. Not quite sure how to set one up and incorporate a skimmer while doing this change. $$$$ is also holding me up as I'm a SAHM and I'm not sure my hubby would appreciate the added expense right now. My birthday is in September so there is that, but I was going to ask for a nano cube so I could dabble in some coral.......

If pretty easy to do and doesn’t cost a lot (in terms of this hobby, lol) All you need is a 10g, 20g, or even 30g tank, overflow, and a pump. The overflow will take the water to the tank below, in there you can have a dsb, or Mineral mud, and some Chaetomorpha algae. you want about 5x water flow, and 2ish watts of light. You can buy a screw in type Power compact at walmart or lowes. You can also run the light at night and off in the day to balance ph. Another option is to have the fuge above your tank. This cost a little less, but depending on your setup and likes, it wont have a clean to it. You pump water from your tank into the fuge, then drill and make your own overflow for water to go back to the main tank.
Read some of the post on here to find more info. There are alot more ways, setups, and ideas then mine.

 

[yetti]

Originally Posted by pashari
I'm hoping to do the 10% water changes daily until I do get the nitrates down. I've been vacuuming the CC substrate pretty well - doing small sections at a time. I realize it may take me weeks to do this, but if its built up so high over a course of 3+ years, it's going to take time to get it down.
.

As mentioned before, 10% water changes will do nothing for you, even if it is every other day. I'd do close to a 50% water change which in turn will cut your nitrates in half. Then follow up with 20-30% changes every other day after that and you see things return to a normal level soon enough.
You definitely need to find the cause or you'll have the same problems in the near future.
Good luck...

 

[froznfinn]

about 3 months ago i experimented by putting a cherrystone clam into my quaratine tank..at the time I had an outbreak of brown algae..i bought it at p&c for 45 cents..
after putting it in my tank it opened slightly then burrowed into the sand.. occasionally i see brown tubes sticking out of the sand..the 2nd day I noticed a clean circle surrounding the clam and within a week the whole tank.. my nitrates are always nil..but i clean my tank and do bimonthly water changes..i also try not to overfeed..good luck..

 

[murph]

Well first off I am not going to knock you for having a CC substrate. When properly maintained this substrate is fine for a FOWLR tank and if thats the look you like so be it. After all it is your tank. I would also hold off on the clams for now and try some maintenance first
The sand rule, which like many things around here seems to be written in stone, probably does apply to reef tanks due to the large amount of LR and placement of corals. You simply can not be moving that much rock and disturbing your corals on that frequent a basis to maintain/vacuum the substrate.
Now to your problem. You probably already have one of these but make sure the siphon your using for water changes has a larger end on it for vacuuming the CC. Push that baby all the way down till it hits the glass and siphon away in various spots. You will notice it pulling out quite a bit of detritus if you look but no CC. Feel free to move some of the LR around and vacuum the substrate there also.
I would suggest 15 to 20 percent water changes/CC vacuuming every other day until you see a decline in nitrate levels. Do not test for nitrates on the maintenance days. You may even see a rise in nitrates on these days due to the fact that you have stirred things up in the tank. Test for nitrates on the day no maintenance is done. You should see a decline in nitrates within a weeks time.
You did not mention if you have a skimmer but if a well functioning skimmer is not part of your setup my guess is your nitrate battle is going to be an uphill one at best. For a FOWLR tank nitrates under 20 are fine. Of course with nitrates less is always better.
Good luck.

 

[murph]

I just noticed you mentioned the possibility of adding a fuge. IMO this would be a great idea and a perfect place for those clams if you decided to go that rout.
I can certainly relate to the financial factors you mentioned but fuges don't have to be all that expensive, crammed underneath your tank, mounted above, expensively lit or have any kind of complicated baffling system to work.
The price run down would go something like this and a item or two a week can be purchased until its up and running. Basically what I had to do.
20 gallon long, vary good size for a fuge, not much height means easy to lite and further off the floor; about 35 bucks
Overflow box rated 600 GPH; about 40 bucks.
Submersible Return pump anywhere from 300GPH to 600GPH; around thirty bucks.
One bag of home depot play sand. 4 bucks
PVC plumbing and glue about 15 bucks.
Thats all you need for a start. Put in a deep sand bed of around 4 inches. Plumb it out and switch on the pump. Immediate benefits. The return pump is going to provide more flow to your main tank. I have read accounts of DSBs functioning to export nitrates in as little as a week. The expanded water volume will immediately dilute down your nitrate levels.
Things to add as money allows.
First some light. Wally world shop light fixture and compact fluorescent daylight bulb. About 16 bucks. They usually run about 45 watts or so and if placed directly over the Marco algae should suffice for growth. I actually prefer some dimmer regions in my fuge.
Macro algae. Calerapa or cheato. Calarerap(sp?) is fine and usually all the LFS will have. Give it extended lighting hours, 14 or even 24/7. Keep it pruned down and you should be fine. Cheato however is the macro of choice if they have it. About ten bucks for a fist size clump at the LFS.
Some rock. Base rock is fine to start and should run no more than a buck a pound. Keep an eye out at the various LFS for live rock sales and provided its cured rock purchase a small piece her and there and toss it right in the fuge.
The DSB and macros should serve to export/capture nitrates within a week(s) after set up. By the six month mark it should be packed with pods and various other forms of Micro fauna. A very good thing indeed.
Don't bother trying to hide it or cram it under the tank. First off that makes it hard to access. Second when I have visitors over to my house they usually spend a couple of minutes looking at the display tank. I hand them a magnifying glass to check out the life in the fuge and they are there for five minutes or more. Kind of a wheres waldo game except with pods and other micro fauna.
There are various ways to "pretty it up". One way is to add another fixture like the one I described above and that much light over a shallow tank will actually suffice for some Mushroom corals/colonies. The low flow in the fuge is also perfect for them. You have just become a reef keeper and are still free to add aggressive and or coral eating fish to your main tank.
As you have probably alread have figured out by the length of the post, I am a huge fuge fan and hands down consider this the best thing you can do for your system. By the way the addition of Macros stands a good chance of cureing or preventing any further cases of HLLE

 

[coachklm]

if your having problems with your tank now.......you can expect to triple that problem by going nano...escpecially if your going with corals. theres twice the time spent keeping levels straight

 

[murph]

Did someone mention nanos?? Maybe I missed something in the thread.
Just to clarify. My fuge advice is by no means meant to have a stand alone 20 gallon tank. It must be plumbed out to the main tank.

 

[pashari]

Thanks for all the help/ideas. Working on setting up a fuge. I brought some macro from Tropicorium and put it in the tank. Tang isn't feasting on it yet, but, hopefully it will help a bit with the nitrates until I can get the fuge going.
We will be tearing down the tank in the next 2 months as we are redoing our floors. Am going to try to hold off any "major" tank set-up until then and try to deal with the nitrates by water changes. Have been doing 10% every other day. Will do a 30% change today and then go back to the 10% every other day and see if it helps.
Thanks, again, for all the input. For the moment, my tang is doing pretty good. Still very active and it looks like his color is coming back a bit. The fins still look pretty bad, but I'm hopeful that he's on the way to recovery.
Thanks!!!
lisa
ps. The nano reference was that I was considering starting up a nano tank in the future so that I could get some corals.

 

[firedog]

I thought play sand was no good because it adds silicates which can cause algae problems, in addition to any other contaminates it might contain.

 

[jerthunter]

Sorry about this but I am trying to find out an answer to this question. I have asked it many times but I haven't gotten a definate answer yet that I have seen. Do the clams actually remove/eat the nitrates themselves and if so what do they release as waste?

 

[nemo's mom]

I'm looking at a petsolution cataloge. They advertise that clams reduce nitrates, ammonia and phosphates. Hope this helps.

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by Nemo's Mom
I'm looking at a petsolution cataloge. They advertise that clams reduce nitrates, ammonia and phosphates. Hope this helps.
Cool, Thank!!! Any info on this helps me