Clams under VHO

[radge69]

A couple of days ago someone posted pictures of his clams under only 440W of VHO on a 75G. Mostly every post I've read here says not to have clams without MH. This persons clams looked incredible. I wanted to know what some of you think of this situation and also why MH is suggested all the time.
PS - Not trying to start a arguement thread, just would like some honest opinions on the situation.

 

[tru conch]

clams (and most everything) will do better under MH. but you can have clams under vho and pc if there are enough bulbs/watts/correct spectrum. you just have to place the clams high up on the lr, not on the sand bed so they get enough lighting. hth.

 

[saltyrich]

I choose to disagree with the previous post (respectfully). I am of the opinion that anything can be kept under vho. There are some lower light colors that will flat out be fried under mh. I believe that vho is definately strong enough to keep sps and clams. With any tank, lighting will not be the only factor. Current, water quality, placement, feeding. etc. I also believe that vho allows you the ability to keep more of a range of corals. It is intense but not intense enough that shrooms, softies will burn up. Some corals can't take mh, particularly if you've got a shallow tank. Go for it.

 

[olsenjb]

I have kept a trocea clam under pc's in my 55 for some time now...nearly 4 months. Granted I had to place him high up in the water column, but it is doing great.

 

[radge69]

Another point about the post I was referring to, he also stated and you could see in the pictures that his clams were on the sand bed, not up in the tank. Standerd 75g is 20" deep I think, so they weren't up next to the surface either.
Like I said, I don't want a arguement, rather some good conversation on the limitations on VHO rather than MH.

 

[saltyrich]

You must understand that ever lighting system has limitations. Please do not feel that mh is the cure all for every reef tank. It is excellent lighting for some applications, but not others. Same goes for vho, pc, no lighting. I happen to prefer vho because I feel that it gives me a larger range of choices AND more importantly I just like it. It works for me and it is definately more cost effective than mh IMO.

 

[josh]

Wow this again?
Clams and stonies are BEST kept under MH lights, end of story. Yes you might be able to keep some stonies or a clam under other light ( there are always exceptions ), but MH are most beneficial no question.
And yes you can even keep some softies under MH as well, you just need to acclimate them.....the only thing that I fried was my shrooms - - - a blessing in disguise!
just my two cents - I am sure others will disagree.
~ oh one more thing to consider, while some people might have oodels of watts using VHO or PC over a tank...you really have to look at the intensity. There is no comparison b/w a 250 watt MH and 250 of PC or VHO....none what so ever!

 

[radge69]

My main concern is that I am fairly new to this hobby. I have a 25G tank now, and will be purchasing a 75 within a couple weeks. I am trying to decide on lighting. I don't really want MH but most people on the board tend to say that it is best. I would really like to know what everyone thinks the advantages and disadvantages are with VHO vs. MH. I want to have a clam or two, but other than that I am really content with corals that can be kept under VHO with no arguements from anyone. I just feel that a lot of people are getting pushed towards MH without any arguement for VHO, or PC's for that matter. If I can keep a clam or two healthy and thriving under 440w VHO that I can by for $350, why spent $500 on a MH?
All in all, just want a good conversation about the two different types for all of us that are trying to decide what to do.

 

[jpribelin]

Well seeing as it is my tank with the clams your refering too, i moved my maxima up to the rocks b/c the bottom was crowed. The maxima has attached to the rock and doing great. The LFS has some crocea's and they always die within two weeks if she can't sell them. I believe that you can keep any clam except a crocea under VHO's.

 

[saltyrich]

Once again we agree to disagree. My sps and clam are emaculate under vho. I'll take the pepsi challenge on that, as will numerous other folks. In fact, do a search on a particular post concerning sps growth and coloration under different lighting systems. A recent post references the specific study and states that vho lighting took it hands down the past several years in a row. MH is great, but not cost effective or necessary (or even better) to keep clams or sps. My lfs frags sps corals under vho lighting. There are several in my tank that are growing and thriving (not to mention his frag tank). It is not end of story, but should be thoroughly tested. I don't dislike mh, I just don't think it is required. I'm not advocating vho over anything else. I'm simply stating that great success is indeed possible and in fact a reality for many. I don't feel that anyone can make a claim that mh definately is better end of story.
Respectfully,

 

[josh]

Hi again,
The difference:
intenstiy, intensity, intensity, instensity and did I mention intensity?
If you are ugrading to a 75 later, why not by lighting that can use with the new tank? Two 250 MH over a 75 would be almost ideal. Buy one now and then you will only have to buy one more down the road. Instead of buying a whole new setup for the added length.
Rich - I NEVER argue with sucess! Just pointing out that generally MH is favored and better for the critters.

 

[saltyrich]

radge69,
I would not go as far as saying that most people on this board prefer mh. There are probably as many folks that use vho as mh. We should do a poll.

 

[jpribelin]

Also my tank is 20" deep, but 18" with sand bed, and the vho's are only 3" off the water

 

[saltyrich]

I agree Josh, but intensity is not everything. You mh's are more intense than vho's. But, is it definatively necessary? I say it is not based on my experience and of those in my area you have had success with clams/sps for years under vhos. Most sps, for example, regardless of tank is placed at the top. Are you saying that vho lighting at the very top of the tank is not intense? I would disagree. I know that mh is more intense, yes. I'm stating that the degree in intensity is not required to be successful with sps/clams. That is my claim anyway.

 

[radge69]

Josh,
To respond to your suggestion. I'm actually looking for lights for the 75g, not my 25g. I'm not going to be adding to the 25g as that will either become a sump or a small hospital tank when the 75 is ready. I figure if I can get enough input on this I can maybe make a decision between the two, because right now I can't decide which way to go. Thanks for the comments.

 

[josh]

Rich,
Sorry man but VHO on top of the tank doesn't even come close to a MH. If you like I could post some articles and findings by Sanjay Joshi. I will be leaving for work soon but I will get those articles tomorrow or just do a google search on him. He is kinda the lighting guru!
Here is a bit of info...now I know lumens is light output and lux is intensity but this gives a pretty good idea.
"Mh bulbs(250 watt) produce 16000 lumens at 8" from the water surface while VHO produce 3500(110 watt) lumens at 3" over the water surface."
See what I mean....

 

[saltyrich]

Sorry Josh, my acroporas, monts, and clam don't quite follow you. We are not dicussing this on the same scale. I'm not interested in articles. I know mh is more intense. I keep saying that such a LEVEL of intensity is NOT required to keep SPS and CLAMS successfully. It's hard to argue with results. The numbers don't carry a great deal of validity over results. Except the cost of mh over vhos (sorry, had to do that. I apologize).

 

[josh]

Hey man you beat me to the punch!
I was going to type this:
I could throw data at you for days like I have in other discussions and then the guy up and post a pic of a nice blue tip acro using VHO......then what heck am I to say!
It all boils down to what works, while VHO may not be the best for stonies and clams.......it does work for some.
And also, you can get a retro MH for as cheap as a VHO setup......had to throw that in as well!

 

[saltyrich]

NOT THE BULBS, NOT THE BULBS!!!!
Have a great weekend.

 

[gregzbobo]

jpribelin what lfs are you talking about? I live in Oklahoma City also and have been to all the lfs's that I know of except the one on Flood in Norman and have not seen any clams at all, is that the one?