Cleaner shrimp help?

[mary]

Mugs, I don't know why the idea of garlic seems to alude all you hobbiests. It really does work. In your tank 8 drops per day, or evening, evening is best I believe, soak dry flakes for several minutes when feeding them, once a day for 6 days, along with the 8 drops at night. Shake the bottle well. It will really heal the fish. I do not want to come off as pretentious but I have had success with it for my blue hippo and other fish the two times the ich showed up. Neon gobies if caught wild also really love to clean my fish. It took them time getting used to those bold little fish. Tank raised may clean but the one I have does not. Just the wild caught. Others may have better luck with tank raised cleaner gobies. I hope they can encourage you. By the way, garlic extreme, not the chemical. I am against all chemicals in my tank. Good luck!

 

[mary]

Mugs, Must add that water changes after any treatment are beneficial, unless you already carried it out recently. A small water change after the treatment week is still a good idea. I am sure you know good quality algea and dried seaweed is beneficial for your hippo .

 

[mugs]

Mary;
I've been using fresh cloves of garlic and lightly crushing it to release some of the oil and soaking flake food in it. Is there a difference between that and garlic extreme? Should I be using it on a daily basis as a preventative, or only at the onset? The bummer about this is that my other fish were all doing great and am worried they might get it too. My others include a yellow tang, perk clown, maroon clown and 5 blue chromis. All of them get along famously. They're all fairly small and none have shown any signs of agressive behavior whatsover. Let me know about the garlic extreme and I'll go find some. It seems to me that the LFS told me fresh garlic worked better:notsure: TIA

 

[mary]

Mugs, You have a good sized tank for all your fish, hope as they grow there won't be problems. A perk clown is the same genus as the maroon clown? There may be aggression problems in the future. On to fresh garlic. You probably don't get the benefit of the amount of oils needed unless you have a very good press and you can see the oil is a good amount.. The extreme garlic is cheaper by mail than in my LFS. Even with the postage and handling. But get the smaller size. It comes with a dropper. The other concern is that fresh garlic could leave solids in the tank that could foul the water, whereas the natural but processed garlic is condensed and would be more beneficial. Sounds like you are only soaking the food in it though and it is not getting into your system. Now I am wondering if one could get the fish to eat finely ground garlic. They sure love the smell. I will try a tiny bit if I ever have the problem again. Might speed up the healing process. I was told that garlic can show up as a yellowish tinge in peppermint shrimp though I have never seen that in my tank.
You would treat with the garlic ex. with 6-8 drops of oil at night, for a week, and during the day soak flake {herbavor flake}, for an hr or so and feed. It does take time. I have used it for cloudy eye
with great sucess. Almost forgot about that. One of my clowns {Carkii}, injured it's eye and I was devestated, so not having a QT I treated it for a week with garlic Ex.. Now also, having lots of live rock is beneficial for healing also. If it has acquired time to develop all those beneficial bacteria that is also very good for speeding up their recovery. I can't give all the credit to garlic.

 

[mugs]

Beth;
Well I just chopped up some fresh garlic as finely as I could and introduced it into the tank. The Hippo came out and actually ate a couple of pieces that were pretty good sized. Some of the others ate some too. Hopefully this will help. I get more upset with animals dieing than people. Don't know why other than I feel sorry for those in a captive environment and a greater sense of responsibility. I figure people for the most part have a little more control of the when and where of it all. Anyway, hoping it works. Thanks for the help and I'm aware of the maroon's agressive behavior, but since both are buddying up so much (introduced to the tank at the same time seems to help) am hoping they'll stay that way:notsure: Also, I'm not overly upset if someone wants to critique or call me a moron, as long as there is some constructive comments to go along with it. I figure I'll be learning about things relating to this hobby until the day I die.

 

[mary]

No one could call you a moron! We are all still learning and I have been keeping a tank for years and still finding out things I didn't know. The more you read the more we realize we don't know. The never ending cycle. I agree that it is extremely upsetting to watch our pets suffer. The worst things that have occurred in my tank are because I don't have a QT, but still somehow pull through and all ends up alright. We all will lose fish, especially in the beginning. Sometimes they are caught with improper techniques which delivered to the sights we purchase them from, they are already weakened and ill. Cyanide bombs are illegal but are still used for fish, especially hippos and the like. The fact you are searching for the proper way to maintain your tank shows you are certainly anything but a moron.
Beth is the one I believe who encourages QT's and I couldn't agree with her more. I love my marine and freshwater tanks but have absolutely no time to deal with anything else. So, garlic extreme and good husbandry are my tools.

 

[beth]

Mary and Mugs, please read the post on ICH in the FAQ Thread at the top of this forum. It details the workings of this parasite and why and how it can be killed. Ich is a marine parasite that is not always present in the water. That is a common myth. Ich is introduced into the aquaria either on a fish host carrying the parasite, in the water where infected fish have swam or on a hard surface [such as sand or rock] where infected fish have occupied the same tank/container. If you treat the fish and tank as prescribed in the FAQ Thread and use viable quarantining practices, you will never have ich in your tank, no matter the status of your fishs’ immune system.
Learning and sharing experiences is why we are all here. No one is a moron for not having knowledge. It is only when you know better and still continue to do wrong things that cause concern. If hobbyist don't study and learn in this hobby, then it will not be very fulfilling.

 

[mary]

Hi Beth, No, it is not in the water, sorry, it can be but I will find the source in one of my many books{and again we can't believe everything we read}, but it states that ich is in the fishes system but harmless unless the fish is stressed. I will find it and will give you the author and article. I have also had it told to me by my very well educated LFS merchants who have studied a lot more than I. Wondering if it is something that is not found in the oceans, only spreads through captive means? Hmmmm. There is some truth to everything and some falsities.

 

[mugs]

Beth;
I'll go check it out, and also confirm a couple of things you stated. I used to have a FO tank w/no LR. I had an ich outbreak (no QT tank, should have learned), lost a few fish and decided to go with the reef tank and LR. Took all fish back to LFS and bought a 150lbs of LR and cured it in the tank. I waited for around 6 weeks until nitrates got down around 0-5ppm and introduced a few soft corals. Eventually added 5 chromis, a yellow tang, a perk and maroon (same time). All fish were doing famously and hanging out together. Probably about 3 weeks in the tank w/no problems when I added the hippo tang. Once again, everyone got along great, but after I put him in tank, noticed a small white circle on side of his body, then one white dot, probably ich and have been cursing ever since. I will proceed to the FAQ section and see where I go from here. Does seem like the garlic is helping, but time will tell. Thanks for all you guys/gals for being such a help. Even though sometimes you feel helpless, there's always an encouraging, constructive direction from this site.

 

[beth]

The only reason untreated ich seems to go away is because the parasite has a multiple stage life cycle of which the ich can only be seen for a few days on the fish. Thus, a fish that has ich and survives the parasite seems to have conquered the problem on its own. Wrong. The parasite is still in the aquarium and the hobbyist will note shortly that the ich has reappeared. Unfortunately, this often occurs after the hobbyist has added more fish to the tank, and, thus, increasing the load of fish that will be compromised to ich.
Ich is a fish paraiste, not a parasite that just hangs out in the water. It is carried in on marine fish and will not survive without a fish host to feed off of. “Knowledgeable” LFS are often wrong when it comes to fish diseases. Unfortunately, fish disease is not the most popular topic in this hobby, and there really is not too many hobbyists that spend time on the topic, including hobbyists who you might consider advanced or knowledgeable.
I would be interested in a quote from whatever book you are reading, Mary.

 

[mary]

Beth, As I chat here on this forum my weeds and my art are screaming at me, but this hobby is also very important to my happiness. It would be wonderful if we all had the finances to have all we need for this hobby. A QT tank would be the answer and all the acrutriments, but I for one can only afford what I have and how I do all I do with my tank. I do know all the stages of ich but have never had my other fish succumb with the exception of the particular fish that started with it. Not to say the other inhabitants didn't get it, they just got over it, but not in the newer stages of my setup, with the freshwater. Had more trouble in the beginning with that. As of now, I don't think I will ever have it again in that it just hasn't been a problem for years. The lateral disease I understand is a lack of nutrients?. Not being able to metabolize vitamin A? I am sure there is a lot more to it than that. Or am I misinformed? Love more on that. Your making your own food is a terrific way to go. That is feasable now and then for me and very good for the fish.
The only thing I would like to know is there an area of waters where mercury is not as high as others? I know certain fishes we eat have much more mercury in them, so we don't buy it, but what about the seafoods for our aquarium fish? I have minced scallops and shrimp, raw at times and everything eats as they have never eaten before. They do love it but the mercury has been a concern. Gueass it could certainly be in processed fish food also. How could it not be? Mary

 

[eagle1]

Originally posted by Bang Guy
Well, If Beth believes that a new hospital tank can be used successfully then I am going to change my opinion to match hers.
I had ich an outbreak and no QT so I set up a brand new 20 gal with the water from my 55 gal.
It was a ton of work to keep water quality in shape so the fish can live in hypo. I had no choice. Fish were dropping like flies due to ich and all the treatments were s*it. Should I let them die or take the chance with an uncycled QT tank? It was a no brainer in my experience.
All fish are now back in the display tank and no ich whatsoever.

 

[beth]

Thank you, Eagle for an update on your situation. A real life validation that you can be successful with a newly set up QT. It is a lot of work, and the hobbyist has to babysit their QT for a month but it can be done. Thus, the individual has to decide if they want to put that much in to it.
Mary, you can setup a QT for a reasonable amt of money, $100 or less. Also, there is a wealth of info on HLLE [head and lateral line erosion] here on this BB. Please do a search using the SEARCH feature and type in HLLE. This disease can be caused by a mulititude of things ranging from stray voltage in the tank to malnurishment to even parasites. You have to address the problem on all fronts to see what is causing it on your fish. I have founnd that high nitrate is a good indicator for a potential problem with HLLE.
As for seafood, most of the time the stores don't necessarily carry the same fish that are caught locally. There is a mixed seafood that is sold in the frozen section that is very good and I particularly use this with various other seafoods. What ever is availabe at the time that I'm mixing up the food.

 

[mary]

Oh yes, We took care of the voltage problem. Our regal tang would dash about from time to time turning white. Terrible, and in researching found out that that was probably the problem. That was when tank was only 6-7 months into the setting up of. He settled downafter that and I concentrated on enjoying everything. As he became very large into the third year, he developed lateral line disease and my feeling was that he had grown so large that he was stressed, and even though it was getting very nutritious foods, greens, and other, he only got worse. One of the things that was possibly a problem was the fact that perhaps it was not able to metabolize the vitamins as it should have. My neighbor who changes her 55 gal. marine tank once in a blue moon, and is not at all concerned with when to put in additives, stron., Iodine and such, has a Hippo who seems to be flourishing. Still quite young though, yet she has had other major problems , but personally when fish look healthy, someones doing something correctly. She tells me I need to neglect my tank. I gave up my hippo to someone hopefully with a larger tank. Not an easy thing to do. It thought it was home forever I am sure. Never will I purchase fish that get large again. My Hippo was very shy, hers is not. Fish are just like people I guess. I have read some about lateral line disease and will check the forums you have mentioned. There are no fish in my tank that have any ailment and that has been stabilized for a long time. Thank goodness. Just algea. I know too much about algea. Really. You have been very informative concerning algeas on the forums.

 

[mary]

Beth, you have me scrambling. Have to go to library, my own and search which books. Certainly been led to believe thoroughly about the ich being present in all fish and will make itself known when immune system wreaks havoc because of unfavorable conditions. I read for a couple of years before setting up our tank, and as time went on the advice, especially about fish was so innacurate. I will find that book also. Talking about temperments in fish, and what is safe with all other inhabitants. Like for instance, my very busy blue legged hermits, enjoy searching out snails and eating them and taking their shells. I saw it occur. So be it, that is the way of the wild. I thought they only ate algea. They attempt to go after smaller red legged hermits.
But, every night I place my one bumble bee that's left, and turbo's on the back glass where they are needed. The b. hermits crawl up the glass also. Beth, observing critters teach one things the books do not have but often when I tell the staff at our LFS they find it hard to believe. One instance is when I would agitate bottom sand, my banded goby would await the swimming of rolled up bristle worms and devour them. After 3 years of enjoying his antics, he came out half eaten. Haven't a clue. Havn't any urchins and it has never happened again. am assuming it digested them. Never saw them being blown back out. No one believes it. The goby would also take the hermits and throw them against rocks. Very funny and it did not hurt the hermits. Often wondered if it tried to break the shells as to eat the softer meat. Have to go again. Thanks so much for your educated knowledge!!! We all appreciate it on these forums.

 

[beth]

Don't let anyone tell you that hermit crabs are vergetarian. They eat meat and will kill for it. IMO we are better off without most crabs in a reef system, and especially hermit crabs. They will east snails and anything else they can get their hands on. There are better detritivores, I think, that don't cause the problems that these little buggers do.
As for the ich. If you are looking thru libraries, etc., you may be reading some very old books with some very old theories on this paraiste.
About your tang with HLLE, by chance did you have high nitrates in your tank?

 

[mary]

Beth, I borrowed a test kit from LFS at times when I questioned my nitrates and it always read at a safe level. I do not remember what the reading was. But my Hippo always seemed to be bothered as a young fish in that it was always rubbing it's side on the algea that grows on back glass. It always ate very well and other than that, long before it developed lateral line it seemed fine. Gorgeous color.
However as he or she matured, and became at least 4-5 in's, it got a little paler in color. That is somewhat common. The SLF told me it grew larger than one would expect in a micro environment. Have always shyed away from any tang, other than the notorious mimic,{it is gone, sold back to LFS} because thought that perhaps our water was not suitable. Will again test the water out of curiosity. Phosphates are always high, but my sun coral is doing wonderfully as are all the other fish and shrimp etc. Featherdusters stopped doing well in my tank. I found that odd. Had them for years until I stupidly learned that they shed their "feathers" and thinking they were dead, removed them. Then I got some info that in fact they were still very much alive and I didn't sleep for nights worrying about them dieing at their keepers hands! With all the rock and few live critters, I shouldn't have a nitrate problem. Change water regularly. Once monthly, 33gal's. in a 90 gal tank. 30 gal sub tank.

 

[jhenson]

Beth, if not Hermit Crabs (which I don't mind removing from my Nano Tank and putting in my larger tank) then what would you recommend as a sand cleaners / detritivores would you recommend?

 

[beth]

Jhenson, somewhere you must have read that I don't like hermit crabs!
What kind of sandbed do you have, tank set up?

 

[beth]

Mary, do you do your own water tests? You should if you don't. Selifert makes some of the best kits.
What are your nitrates? Nitrates is an indication of excess nutrients in the aquaria. Unless you have a FO tank, the target is zero. And, I believe that tangs should not be in tanks with nitrates. This is just my opinion from personal exp and the considerable exp. that I have observed from other hobbyists.