cleaner wrasse

robdog696

Member
Thinking of buying one. It's eating frozen brine and mysis. It's still labeled difficult to care for. All I have in my tank are a pair of true percs and a golden angel. Sold my tang. I read that housing the golden with a cleaner wrasse will help its survivability. I want to do everything possible to keep this fish alive, but not at the cost of killing the wrasse. Any advice, tips, or pointers concerning cleaner wrasse? Specifically, four line red sea cleaner wrasse, not Hawaiian. Thanks.
 

pastor b.

Member
Dear hobbyist,If you're going to purchase a cleaner wrasse, make sure that it has been in the lfs a while . Cleaner Wrasses are difficult to keep . They'll eat parasites like ich from off of your fish and dead skin. I've had mine for almost two years now,and it also eats brine shrimp,formula one,and marine cuisine. When its time for bed ,it will hide just before the lights go out inside of lr where it will remain until morning .
 

robdog696

Member
Awesome! Someone who has one. How many other fish do you have? Do you think that it gets a substantial amount of its diet from cleaning other fish? Thank you for your response. Do you think that this fish is worth getting for a 58 gallon tank with only three other inhabitants?
 

robdog696

Member
I'm really questioning this purchase. For every post about someone who has kept a cleaner wrasse alive for several years there is a post by someone claiming their removal disrupts the ocean's ecosystem. I found two very helpful articles of conflicting opinions. The deciding factor for me is probably going to be figuring out the survivability and effectiveness of my other options. One post claims that a neon goby or skunk cleaner shrimp will do equally well. Does anyone have any first hand knowledge about these two fish? How about a regular cleaner shrimp? Again, any info would be helpful, Thanks.
 

spanko

Active Member
My neon goby cleans fish in the tank. I cannot say I know if they are effective at doing so but I see him doing it and the fish he is cleaning allowing it to happen. I can say that from knowledge of the cleaner wrasse that is only from much reading about it your chance at keeping it alive long term is very small to nil.
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Cleaner wrasses play a vital roll in the well being of reef fish the removal of these fish quickly impact in a negative way the reefs of the world, studies show fish populations drop off. Fish migrate to other areas and the fish that remain lose fitness as measured by increased external parasite load, sores and torn fins. Leave cleaner Wrasses where they belong in the ocean BOYCOTT THESE FISH
 
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tizzo

Guest
I agree with FL Joe.
My LFS just had in a lot of cleaner wrasses and before I was going to buy one, I did my homework and learned of the reef impact that joe just mentioned, so I decided against it. But I went back today and every single one has been sold. Which means he will be ordering more. I don't like that and I will not contribute.
But that neon goby... I had one and he does clean! He would even clean my arm when I did aquarium maintenance!
If your buying him cause you have ick, keep in mind, whos gonna clean him if he gets it? Buy a pair. I'm not saying they are a cure for ick, they most certainly are not, but if you have it and you are taking measures to keep it at bay then there is something to consider.
I agree JOE... Boycott those babies!
 

robdog696

Member
I am all about doing what's right for the ocean. I have been doing a lot of reading. I guess my disconnect is this. Why is removing cleaner wrasse detrimental, but not cleaner gobies? I think I have decided to do what I feel is right and get a goby, regardless. No, I don't have ick. I am just trying to do everything I can to keep my golden pygmy angelfish alive and happy. I gave away a purple tang I paid $165 for because he couldn't play nice. I have been reading and it looks like the white line cleaner shrimp is the same thing as a skunk. Is this right? How effective are they at cleaning, compared to the goby. Would it be overkill to have both? Would one starve because there were not enough parasites to go around? Silly question, I know. Thanks for all the help, guys. Someone should make a "don't buy these fish" thread and sticky it. LOL!
 
J

jesses89

Guest
my neon goby constantly cleans my fish in the tank...
its really fun to watch.. especially when it cleans my sailfin tang... it changes colors.
 
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tizzo

Guest
White line cleaner shrimp? Is that This One??
But either way the neon goby nor that shrimp are obligate parasite eaters like the cleaner wrasse. The goby and the shrimp will eat any fish food you put into the tank, and can thrive well with just that.
 

chilwil84

Active Member
the shrimp are the same and will easily take to noncleaning activities for food( my pair beg for food as bad as my fish). they may reduce the food available for the gobie(only live for 1-2 years) never had one personaly so cant tell you how they take to other food. unless you have a well stocked large tank(180+) no cleaner is gonna survive on cleaning alone. most cleaners that are brought into our tanks slowly move away from cleaning if they survive long term (they will still do it but look for other food sources) cleaner wrasses are best left in the wild and if you are looking for answers to questions on this board prob not best for you (meaning you really need some serious experience before even thinking about keeping the fish). personally i feel skunk shrinp have great personalities and a great addition to a tank if water is kept perfect
 

kjr_trig

Active Member
"The Concientious Marine Aquarist" by Bob Fenner...p.282
"Cleaner Wrasses: Boycot these Fishes"
Its a couple of pages that essentially explains why we shouldn't buy this fish...There are more appropriate cleaners for the home aquarium...Certain Gobies, shrimp, etc.
You should read that if you want the best argument why we should not purchase these fish.
If Bob Fenner says so....Far be it for me to argue.
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Michael's says very similar (and Calfo as well I think).
Avoid them. Most will perish in an aquarium, even if they are eating prepared foods. Their natural diet is almost exclusively from "cleaning" in the wild.
 

robdog696

Member
Thanks for all the responses. To Chilwil... next time you ask a question about something on the board I'll assume that means you are incapable of accomplishing whatever feat you asked for advice on. I have extensively researched the cleaner wrasse, and I understand the difficulties in caring for them. I think if you had better understood my question and/or Tizzo's response then you would already know this. Still, thanks for your response. I have decided to purchase a neon goby, so thanks to all of you for removing one less cleaner wrasse from the sea... today, anyways. For all of you that already felt strongly about the cleaner wrasse, I will tell you this. I had ZERO clue that a neon goby was a cleaner fish. I have been in the hobby for over a year, I work part time at a lfs, and I spend as much time reading about fish and coral species as many of you spend on these forums. Somehow, the word needs to be gotten out there that, as kjr put it, "there are more appropriate cleaners for the home aquarium." Thanks again!
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Robdog696
http:///forum/post/2579513
Thanks for all the responses. To Chilwil... next time you ask a question about something on the board I'll assume that means you are incapable of accomplishing whatever feat you asked for advice on. I have extensively researched the cleaner wrasse, and I understand the difficulties in caring for them. I think if you had better understood my question and/or Tizzo's response then you would already know this. Still, thanks for your response. I have decided to purchase a neon goby, so thanks to all of you for removing one less cleaner wrasse from the sea... today, anyways. For all of you that already felt strongly about the cleaner wrasse, I will tell you this. I had ZERO clue that a neon goby was a cleaner fish. I have been in the hobby for over a year, I work part time at a lfs, and I spend as much time reading about fish and coral species as many of you spend on these forums. Somehow, the word needs to be gotten out there that, as kjr put it, "there are more appropriate cleaners for the home aquarium." Thanks again!
Just got around to reading your post, for what its worth
 

chilwil84

Active Member
Robdog696;2579513 said:
Thanks for all the responses. To Chilwil... next time you ask a question about something on the board I'll assume that means you are incapable of accomplishing whatever feat you asked for advice on. I have extensively researched the cleaner wrasse, and I understand the difficulties in caring for them.
if you extensively research the cleaner wrasse you wouldnt have asked the question. just trying to fish for someone to give you the answer you want to hear for a question (like someone saying they have kept a cleaner in a 55 for 5 years) to justify you buying one isnt gonna get you anywhere in this hobby and is only gonna cost you moneyand the environment some animal that shouldnt have been removed.
 
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tizzo

Guest
Originally Posted by chilwil84
http:///forum/post/2580732
if you extensively research the cleaner wrasse you wouldnt have asked the question. just trying to fish for someone to give you the answer you want to hear
I hafta disagree with you. Although I see what you are talking about in a lot of cases, I do not think that's where Robdog was going.
Personally, I think him asking on this board was a bit of researching.
And in his original post, he seems more concerned with keeping his golden angel healthy, and the wrasse issue stemmed from there.
He is conceeding and not buying the wrasse, he didn't, like so many others, say, "My dad's best friend's uncle has been keeping fish for 100 years, and HE said it's OK, so I'm gonna go with his advice"...
I think it was a smart post. Maybe there was a communication mix up in there somewhere
 

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by chilwil84
http:///forum/post/2579288
the shrimp are the same and will easily take to noncleaning activities for food( my pair beg for food as bad as my fish). they may reduce the food available for the gobie(only live for 1-2 years) never had one personaly so cant tell you how they take to other food. unless you have a well stocked large tank(180+) no cleaner is gonna survive on cleaning alone. most cleaners that are brought into our tanks slowly move away from cleaning if they survive long term (they will still do it but look for other food sources) cleaner wrasses are best left in the wild and if you are looking for answers to questions on this board prob not best for you (meaning you really need some serious experience before even thinking about keeping the fish). personally i feel skunk shrinp have great personalities and a great addition to a tank if water is kept perfect
You had all of the right info and I am sure the best of intentions until....this
cleaner wrasses are best left in the wild and if you are looking for answers to questions on this board prob not best for you (meaning you really need some serious experience before even thinking about keeping the fish).
I am sure that you didn't mean it the way that it came out though.
Originally Posted by Tizzo

http:///forum/post/2580774
I hafta disagree with you. Although I see what you are talking about in a lot of cases, I do not think that's where Robdog was going.
Personally, I think him asking on this board was a bit of researching.
And in his original post, he seems more concerned with keeping his golden angel healthy, and the wrasse issue stemmed from there.
He is conceeding and not buying the wrasse, he didn't, like so many others, say, "My dad's best friend's uncle has been keeping fish for 100 years, and HE said it's OK, so I'm gonna go with his advice"...
I think it was a smart post. Maybe there was a communication mix up in there somewhere

I think it was a wise post, and a smart decision, as well. Cleaner gobies are awsome fish that will clean but do not have to live off of parasites and dead tissue.
 

robdog696

Member
Originally Posted by chilwil84
http:///forum/post/2580732
if you extensively research the cleaner wrasse you wouldnt have asked the question.
The cleaner wrasse's difficulty to keep in the home aquarium stems from three predominant factors. Firstly, cleaner wrasse of all four types have very small mouths as juviniles. As a result, they feed on very small parasites that live on other fish. Within the last 7 years marine aquarium hobbyists have "by accident" discovered this fact. By chopping their fish food into smaller pieces than intended, it was observed that cleaner wrasse actually ate many meaty preparations.
Second, even if you are able to coerce a cleaner wrasse to eat meaty preparations regularly, they still may perish in the home aquarium due to undernourishment. It was once believed that this was because these fish were obligate cleaners. This means that the majority of their diet must be parasites to provide them the nourishment that they require. Now we know that many species of wrasse, including the cleaner wrasse, become coral feeders as adults. This means that if you do not have an abundance of the appropriate type of stony corals in your aquarium for them to feed on, they will starve. The reason for this is not known, but it is speculated that the coral tissue must be damaged or the wrasse will not feed on it. It's thought to be because a stony coral will not release toxins if the wrasse feeds on damaged tissue. Therefore, a cleaner wrasse may be kept in an aquarium free of parasites, but not an aquarium free of stony corals.
Finally, it was once believed that the natural lifespan of cleaner wrasse (in the wild) was up to ten years. Because marine aquarium hobbyists were only able to keep these fish alive for one or two years, it was believed that they would never live even half of their natural lifespan in captivity. Now we know that their natural lifespan (in the wild) is approximately four years. Having learned all that we have about the feeding habits of this fish, as illustrated in reasons one and two, some hobbyists have reported keeping cleaner wrasse alive for over three years. Therefore, it could be said that with the proper care a cleaner wrasse could be kept alive in the home aquarium for over 75% of it's natural lifespan.
That leaves one remaining argument against keeping this fish in the home aquarium. Their removal is said to be far-reaching in it's devastating impacts on both fish populations and subsequently the health of coral reefs. It is said that because there are not enough cleaner wrasse thousands of fish die because there are no "doctors" to treat their illnesses. It is also said that the ramaining fish will leave the reef in search of "doctors". Meanwhile, the reef's ecosystem is imbalanced, as many fish that would normally feed upon natural predators of live coral have left the reef undefended. It is said. But have any of you seen any scientific evidence? Has anyone seen a study done on this subject? I have! And the study was published years after "The Conscientious Marine Aquariast" was. The study was published in 1997, and involved removing all cleaner wrasse from three separate coral reefs. The reefs were monitored for three and six month periods. No noticeable decline in fish population was observed. Therefore, there is currently more evidence (that I have personally found) to suggest that this is cult fiction than there is to support its validity.
So why did I decide to purchase a neon goby? Because, in answer to my post several people reported that they were very happy with their neon gobies. In addition, neon gobies stay small their entire lives, unlike the cleaner wrasse. Therefore, they continue to perform cleaning services for other fish their entire lives, whereas cleaner wrasse often do not. Also, as a personal observation, I noticed that everyone who has been successful in keeping these fish for more than three years has housed them in a 100 gallon or larger aquarium. I personally believe that their minimum tank capacity requirements are wrong. And lastly, neon gobies are considered reef safe, as they do not bother corals. Cleaner wrasse, I have learned, are labeled difficult even if they are eating other meaty preparations well because preventing them from picking at some LPS and most SPS corals in the home aquarium is nearly impossible. It is, in fact, undesirable. In conclusion, I would like to quote kjr_trig again. "There are more appropriate cleaners for the home aquarium," than the cleaner wrasse. Not because of low survival rates or wide-sweeping environmental impacts, but for more practical reasons. Thank you for taking the time to read this. I hope you learned as much as I did by "fishing for someone to give me the answer I want."
 
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