cleaning sand

hotch

New Member
how do you clean the sand when you do a water change? I had crushed coral in my last tank and I want to use sand in the next one. When I would do my water change I used a gravel vac on the CC. What do you do for the sand? Someone suggested using the gravel vac only not holding it too close to the sand. Any suggestions? Thanks.
 

longhorn

New Member
I'd be interested to know what others are doing, but I have sand and I use a long gravel cleaner. The kind that you plunge into the sand to get it started. The tube is ling enough that most of the sand doesn't get to the top where it would be siphoned out. If too much gets away, I usually rinse it out and put it back in the tank.
 

nm reef

Active Member
With crushed coral it is a good idea to vac the stuff to remove trapped dietrius and crap that builds up....in a DSB there are creatures living in the DSB that consume the same stuff. It is not advised to vac or even disturb the sand bed.....it sort of defeats the purpose of the DSB. Best option is to let it be and let the micro fauna take care of the sand bed. That is one of the primary benefits of developing a DSB vs maintaining a CC substrate.:cool:
 

diverva

Member
I don't touch the sand bed. I have a ton of blue leg and scarlet crabs, 1 sally light foot, and 1 emerald crab. I also have a peperment shirmp. I can usually find these guys down on the sand eating up all the extra food the fish didn't eat. I used to have CC and like the sand much better because you don't have to clean it.
 

alf3482

Member
No need to clean the sand bed as long as it is full of life. The sand critters will do the work for you. If it is not full of life seed it and it soon will be as lond as there are no SB critter predetors in the tank. For cleaning the surface of the sand bed, you need critters that stir the sand and sift it with out eating all the life out of it. A queen conch and tigertail cukes are some of the best I have found. HTH
 

angelofish

Member
I haven't cleaned mine since I switched from CC. At night all the dwarf hermits "switch on" and clean up the surface . In the morning I can see all the tracks in the sand.
 

shadow678

Member
My suggestion for an excellent sand cleaner would be a sand-sifting goby, such as a a Golden-Headed Sleeper goby. They are interesting to watch, and they do an excellent job keeping your sand clean and just slightly stirred. While vaccuuming your sand will remove all the beneficial organisms, having a goby or other type of sand-sifter will benefit your sand by helping to aeriate the top layer, which keeps your sand in good condition. There are many different and interesting animals that you can add that will accomplish this task. Sand-sifting starfish are also a good choice, if you don't have any animals that will eat stars.
 

alf3482

Member

Originally posted by Shadow678
My suggestion for an excellent sand cleaner would be a sand-sifting goby, such as a a Golden-Headed Sleeper goby. They are interesting to watch, and they do an excellent job keeping your sand clean and just slightly stirred. While vaccuuming your sand will remove all the beneficial organisms, having a goby or other type of sand-sifter will benefit your sand by helping to aeriate the top layer, which keeps your sand in good condition. There are many different and interesting animals that you can add that will accomplish this task. Sand-sifting starfish are also a good choice, if you don't have any animals that will eat stars.

Only add either of these if you want a dead sand bed these critters eat all the SB infuna. Here Is a quote from Rob Toonen on Sand sifting stars.
origanly posted By Biogeek

Well, I was going to link you to a discussion of sand-sifting stars that I have posted previously, but I can't find it, so I'll have to just send it again.
First, let me start off with some background information. The "sand-sifting stars" that we see in the petshops are all Paxillosid and Valvatid sea stars, almost all in the genus Astropecten or the genus Luidia. They are similar to other sea stars in that they have a water-vascular system that functions as a hydralic method to move their bodies around. They have the typical tube-feet sticking out of the bottom of the star, which they can retract when threatened, or move independently for locomotion or burrowing. Unlike most other sea stars, however, the end of each tube foot in the majority of the "true" sand-sifting sea stars is pointed (rather than ending in the terminal sucker typical of most sea stars) for better anchorage in the sand (although there are certainly a few sand-sifting stars in these genera that retain the suckered tube feet, but they are frequently generalists that move with equal comfort on rock and sand). The Paxillosid stars have a unique type of skeletal element (bone-like ossicles called paxillae) that are umbrella-shaped, and have a bunch of mobile spines (almost like a miniature urchin if you were to look at them under a microscope) across the top. These tiny spines allow the star to clean sand off of itself when above the surface, and the umbrella-shaped ossicles are usually dense enough to cover the entire upper surface of the sea star, so that they are still able to extend the gill-like filaments (papulae are the sea star equivalent of gills in fish) to allow the animal to breath when buried in the sand (there is a nice cartoon of how this works found here). They also usually have a distinctive row of marginal spines around the edge of the star that are used for prey capture in some species, and presumably function for defense as well. Most species in these genera are very fast for a sea star, and when stimulated some species can crawl at speeds as high as 75 cm/sec (that's the Cheetah of echinoderms)! Both Astropecten and Luidia are found almost exclusively in soft, sandy bottom habitats where they burrow through the sand for protection and in search of prey (hence the name sand-sifting sea stars). I can't tell you which one you're likely to have without at least a picture of yur star, but the most common ones in the petshops tends to be Astropecten species.
If you were trying to add one of these stars into a FOWLR tank without live sand, then you probably would not be overly concerned with their predatory habits, and in fact they would probably a good addition to such tanks. However, you're asking about keeping one of these predatory stars to a reef tank with a DSB (presumably seeded with at least some live sand). Adding one to a tank in which you intend to have a deep sandbed is not such a great idea - I explained the reasons in detail in my FAMA series on sandbeds a couple of years ago, and Ron Shimek has a nice article on deep sand beds and the reasons to avoid these sea stars online here, if you're looking for more information about adding one to a tank with a deep sand bed.
These stars are almost all voracious predators that consume a wide variety of both vertebrate and invertebrate prey. They are most active at dusk and dawn, when the light regime is subdued, but their foraging behavior is likely to be somewhat disrupted by the fact that few aquarium lighting systems have a dusk and/or dawn setting (most of us just turn the lights on or off). Several studies have shown that they prefer to feed at night to during the day unless they are really hungry, and I suspect the reason that most people don't see any problem with these animals in reef tanks and deep sand beds is that they eat things while we're asleep and not really watching the tank. The stars appear to have chemosensory abilities that allow them to discriminate among prey, and there have been a couple of studies showing that they will adjust their feeding behavior and preferentially eat certain prey in response to changes in prey density. Some species actually ingest their prey, while others simply use their spiked arms to trap the prey below the sand surface, and secrete digestive enzymes to digest the captured critters into an easily swallowed paste. There is some individual variation in both prey preference and amount of time spent out during daylight hours, but the majority of these animals should prefer a shady spot to hide during the day if they are not on the hunt.
You may be able to feed it well enough that it does not make a serious dent in your sandbed population, but I asked Ron Shimek about this as well, and neither he nor I have ever seen anyone who has a really well-developed sandbed fauna (and between the two of us doing "Sandbed Safari" workshops over the years, we've seen a lot of people's sandbeds ) with these stars in their tank. If you're determined to try to keep the star anyway, keep in mind that all the members of this family of sea stars are pretty greedy feeders. In fact, gut-content analyses of 100 sea stars caught in the wild revealed that there were 91 different species of invertebrate prey eaten recently by these stars! The most common prey items they ate in the wild were snails and bivalve (clams & mussels) molluscs, but they also ate a large number of other echinoderms (including small sand dollars, sea stars, urchins, brittle stars, and sea cucumbers), polychaete worms, small crustaceans (including shrimp, crabs, and all the various 'pods), dead or foolishly slow fish, and some small cnidarians (sea pens, sea pansies and anemones that dwell in sandy areas). They can eat an incredible amount of food for a small star, and individual stars have been found with as many as 70 brittle stars in their stomach at one time! So, unless you have been providing your star with a reasonable amount of food on a regular basis, I would say that it has probably done some pretty serious grazing on your sandbed animals ever since you added it to the tank. If you have access to clams, mussels or the like cheaply from a local bait shop or such, the stars should be quite happy with that, but IME they also devour Formula One, Prime Reef, or other frozen foods of that kind quite greedily. You can feed them intentionally by sticking them into a floating breeding trap with some food if necessary, but I have found that simply placing food close to where they are crawling when the lights are out usually means that they will get the food instead of feeding the fish in the tank...
Hope that helps?
 

fshhub

Active Member
you can get a detrivore kit, online, that has critters taht clean your bed, that and cycling will seed it(with bacteria), or you could let your lr seed it, or do both, i have opted to do both, the critters on the lr are mostly the same ones you want in the sand too
all that is meant by seeding is getting these critters and bacteria into the sand bed, thus adding your lr will perform the task
another option is to get some sand from an established tank, some lfs's sell it or maybe a fellow hobbyist in your area would give you some as well
 

a&m aggie 04'

Active Member
or you could buy actual live sand out of an established tank. Spread it all over the "dead sand" and over time you have all live sand. The live rock will seed it too, but adding live sand should help speed up making all your sand live.
Mark
 
Top