Close loop sump without drilling?

[spiked09]

I am attempting to setup a sump tank in my basement but I REALLY don't want to drill my tank. Is a closed loop system doable utilizing u-tubes for output and return?
Is this a good idea?
I have heard too many horror stories about HOB overflow boxes loosing siphon so I don't want to go that route and trying to match drain flow to the sump pumps return flow sounds like a pain in the butt too.
Is a closed loop system 100% safe, even in power outtages?
Are there cons to a closed loop sump that I am unaware of?

 

[dogstar]

I have never heard of a Closed Sump. I only know of open top sump tanks, not sealed. Can you explain more ??

 

[blkstuntma]

Originally Posted by Dogstar
I have never heard of a Closed Sump. I only know of open top sump tanks, not sealed. Can you explain more ??

hello there i am getting started with my tanks and i would like to know what worked best for people when they started out i would like to know the best pumps to use also if anyone can tell me what theSeachem Pinnacle+ RO 400L is used for and how it works i have a 100gl and 55gl tank that i need pumps for thank you for your time

 

[moby]

Spiked09, yes you can do a closed loop without drilling the tank.
Yes it is safe even if the power goes out. Think about it, if water leaves the tank goes through the pump and returns to the tank what difference is made if it stops running. Nothing. There is nothing to overflow, just water moving thru a pump and some pipes! Closed loop is made to provide water movement, thats it.
A sump is something else entirely, I think you are confusing the two.
Now would I use a sump in my basement with HOB? Not a freakin chance! But keep in mind this is just my opinion. Too easy to lose suction and stop the syphon. I don't trust'em.
Good questions though, don't be afraid to ask more! :happyfish
Moby

 

[birdy]

I was going to say the same thing as Moby, you can do a closed loop without drilling or using a HOB overflow, but you cannot use a sump.

 

[spiked09]

Originally Posted by moby
Spiked09, yes you can do a closed loop without drilling the tank.
Yes it is safe even if the power goes out. Think about it, if water leaves the tank goes through the pump and returns to the tank what difference is made if it stops running. Nothing. There is nothing to overflow, just water moving thru a pump and some pipes! Closed loop is made to provide water movement, thats it.
A sump is something else entirely, I think you are confusing the two.
Now would I use a sump in my basement with HOB? Not a freakin chance! But keep in mind this is just my opinion. Too easy to lose suction and stop the syphon. I don't trust'em.
Good questions though, don't be afraid to ask more! :happyfish
Moby
Yup, you're right I was totally confused. I am trying desperately to find a way of having a sump without drilling my tank, guess it's just not gonna happen.

 

[joncat24]

you can use the hang on overflow box with no problem. I bought a small vacuum pump thatwhen the power comes back on it restarts the siphon for you. email me and I will give you the info. It works like a champ for like 15.00 including shipping. jhnlittle - hotmail.com

 

[fatboyjoe]

http://jwsweb.home.mchsi.com/salt7/closedloop.JPG

 

[phixer]

A closed loop system is best IMO but too much complexity also reduces reliability. That being said:
A pump could be used with a bypass circuit to draw the water out of the tank and into the sump using a mechanical level switch and shuttle valve to regulate the flow after the siphon starts, this valve would regulate the siphon flow and the shuttle could be throttled by a float mechanism. If the sump water level gets too high valve restricts flow into the sump and redirects the water back to the main tank.
A seperate return pump would return the filtered water from the sump back into the main tank. Using a the same type of float controled shuttle bypass circuit to prevent overfilling of the main tank. This way no holes have to be drilled and there is no chance of overfilling either the sump or the tank if power is lost. When power resumes the siphon will be restarted.
Ive used these types of mechanical shuttle valves for applications in aircraft, flight control, oxygen and environmental control systems.
Its easier to drill your tank and keep the reliabilty, less to go wrong IMHO.

 

[promisetbg]

A closed loop is just that.. a loop from a pump and back to the tank for added circulation. So you don't have the need for powerheads. I have a closed loop with a SCWD and a sump with a return pump split to a refugium on my 75. It incorporates a PVC draw tube with holes drilled in it which is placed on one side in the back of the tank...all the way to the bottom with a cap on the end. The water goes to an external 800 GPH Blueline pump and then is returned to the tank where it splits in a SCWD and enters the tank via 2 sets of Locline...one on either side. The open system is run off a 1200 GPH Blueline pump.. it uses an internal overflow box to take the water to a 20 gal sump, to the skimmer, then it is split at the pump to go over to a 29 gal. refugium where it dumps by gravity back to the tank. The rest is returned to the tank..again using a SCWD and entering the tank using two sets of Locline on either end of the tank. Using the closed loop I was able to remove 5 powerheads from the tank.

 

[phishface]

i have a over flow box feeding my sump and, i check it all the time, i havent lost syphon or overfilled the sump. if you have your boxes level, and a break hole in your return line just - the water surface, it works everytime.

 

[spiked09]

Originally Posted by phishface
i have a over flow box feeding my sump and, i check it all the time, i havent lost syphon or overfilled the sump. if you have your boxes level, and a break hole in your return line just - the water surface, it works everytime.

Looks like this is what I am going to do. I will be making a u-tube overflow box this weekend and pumping the sump. I can't wait to get all the equipment out of my DT!