Clownfish Emergency

[vanquish]

Clownfish Emergency
Ladies and gentlemen, I am facing a MASSIVE crisis. I don’t usually post my problems on here, just questions, because I always seem to find solutions on my own by searching through threads. But this is completely beyond me and I fear needs IMMEDIATE attention.
For the past several days the behavior of my clownfish has changed dramatically. My tank is about 7 months and I’ve had them since the beginning so I know them quite well. About four days ago I woke up and found my clowns swimming broad side up in the corners of the tank at the very surface of the water. I thought nothing of it, because I had done a water change just before. The next day they were lethargic, and slow moving. All the while swimming at the top on their sides. Yesterday one lost the ability to swim at the top, and was hanging out on the bottom. The other was resting atop a power head gasping. Today they are moving VERY slowly. One is swimming at the top sideways in a corner and the other is on the bottom gasping.
I preformed tests and changed the water. Before the change the readings were:
Ammonia: 0
NO2: 0
NO3: 0
PO4: 1.0
pH: 8.2
Salinity: 1.0245
Ca: 530
KH: 190
I know the calcium and hardness has been off, but it’s been that way for a while. The only changes which have occurred recently are an upgrade in lighting (2x 65w pc lighting over 20g of tank) and an explosion of red slime algae which I am struggling to control. Could either of these be responsible for my fish’s health? I can find no parasites or markings of any kind on their bodies. Could this be a bacterium? Virus? I really don’t have any idea and I’m running out of options.
Please people; please help with your comments. I love these fish incredibly and would be devastated if they died (although in their condition I’m surprised that they are still alive)

 

[vanquish]

Bump. Please people im freaking out. :help: :help:

 

[tank watch]

was your saltwater completely dissolved for 24 to 36 hours prior to use?

 

[laddy]

If you tank is over 7 months old, use some deductive reasoning.....has there been a temperature swing? Added any corals to the tank? Start asking yourself some questions like these.

 

[vanquish]

Added a green hammer not long ago. Other fish not affected though. No temp swings. Got my water from the LFS with the salt pre-mixed. Could the hammer have anything to do with it? they seem to ignore it, they never touched it or anything.

 

[zanski]

Originally Posted by Vanquish
Added a green hammer not long ago. Other fish not affected though. No temp swings. Got my water from the LFS with the salt pre-mixed. Could the hammer have anything to do with it? they seem to ignore it, they never touched it or anything.
My 2 percs both sleep sideways above my powerheads everynight.

 

[vanquish]

Originally Posted by Zanski
My 2 percs both sleep sideways above my powerheads everynight.

I wish this was the case with mine. They usually sleep among the LR. These fish are more like 'stuck' to the heads from the suction, and they are clearly sick and low in energy.

 

[miamireefr]

The water added ...do you know if the temp was to low or to high from the temp in your tank? was the water any good to begin with? I might be anal but I check the water I get from even my lfs to ensure i am not throwing any kind of SHITE into my tank that would cause it's inhabitants any harm.... do it twice a month for my upkeeping of my reef tank.
How much water did you change?
I would also suggest try not to grab them or poke them around for stimulation reasons...I would only think this will stress them more.... monitor them, feed them accordingly as well.....A qt would not do any good at this point just yet considering you don't see any disease on them simply stressed.... could they have had a little fuss? etc etc...
Sorry to hear of this...Trust me I am a person who hates it EXTREMELY when I can't do something about my tank problems be it fish or coral.. best of luck and hope they pull through.
Nick

 

[vanquish]

Originally Posted by MiamiReefr
The water added ...do you know if the temp was to low or to high from the temp in your tank? was the water any good to begin with? I might be anal but I check the water I get from even my lfs to ensure i am not throwing any kind of SHITE into my tank that would cause it's inhabitants any harm.... do it twice a month for my upkeeping of my reef tank.
How much water did you change?
I would also suggest try not to grab them or poke them around for stimulation reasons...I would only think this will stress them more.... monitor them, feed them accordingly as well.....A qt would not do any good at this point just yet considering you don't see any disease on them simply stressed.... could they have had a little fuss? etc etc...
Sorry to hear of this...Trust me I am a person who hates it EXTREMELY when I can't do something about my tank problems be it fish or coral.. best of luck and hope they pull through.
Nick
Thanks Nick, I appreciate your kind words. I never thought I would ever get so worked up about a pair of fish! Never did when I had FW any way… Guess that means I just really love these guys.
I haven’t done anything out of the ordinary to them that I can POSSIBLY think of. Like I said, I’ve kept them for seven months and they have tolerated every water change like it was nothing (up to now they were tough little guys). My chemicals have always been stable… The only NEW things that have been going on are the following:
Upgraded lighting: 2x 65w pc (10,000k and actinic) for a total of 130w in 20g of tank.
Red Slime Algae explosion as a result (attempting to control by scrubbing and siphon, no chemicals and limiting daylight to 7hrs)
Could the RSA be making them sick? I should think not… at least I never heard of it making fish sick just suffocating corals.

 

[vanquish]

JUST THOUGHT OF SOMETHING
About two weeks ago I removed the protein skimmer and moved it to another tank because it was doing zero work in my 20 (bio filtration is just too good) could the O2 have slowly depleted and caused them to react like this? Ammonia never increased. Yesterday I put the skimmer back in, and its oxygenating like CRAZY! but no improvement yet... also, the clowns are the only ones sick. Yellow tail, scooter, and goby as well as inverts are all ok.
What are the symptoms of fish suffering from low O2? Does it take a while to rebound?

 

[howard947]

Red Slime removers work well. Turn your skimmer off for a few days while you are killing the red slime. Your nitrates will only go up a little. With the added lighting, I would be very suspicious of a temperature change. Your tank should be around 78-80 degress.

 

[vanquish]

It remains a consistant 78-80. mostly leaning to 80. When the lights are on the heater simpley cuts on less. Thanks for the thought though; this is exactly what i need--to think of things i might have overlooked.... any others?

 

[vanquish]

Originally Posted by Howard947
Red Slime removers work well. Turn your skimmer off for a few days while you are killing the red slime. Your nitrates will only go up a little. With the added lighting, I would be very suspicious of a temperature change. Your tank should be around 78-80 degress.
side question for you Howard: these removers you speak of, are they reef safe? any brand names you would recomend?

 

[vanquish]

Bump.

 

[slofish]

Sorry cant help w/ the clowns, but as for the red slime remover, my LFS suggested Chemi-Clean. It worked very well for my 26 reef. Although the chemicals may help, its always best to attack the root cause of the red slime to prevent any future outbreaks. Like Howard said, its best to turn off your protein skimmer for bout 24 hours when u use this.

 

[miamireefr]

adding chemicals without know root problem is no good imo.....just means it will come right back if not remedied through a solid fix meaning you took care of the problem not band aid it. Did the red slime appear after introducing the lighting and also I would look at how much you are feeding these fish....overfeeding can also contribute....people have had algae blooms in general due to lighting ...trust me this ---- is a pita but it comes with the territory when dealing with SW tanks.... I leanred the hard way after my tank crashed the 1st time around and I had "new tank syndrome". added alot of fish to fast and fish that should have not been there to begin with equaled 300 dollars lost.... not fun.. hope they are doing better today man... and also consider what was your salt level before adding in the change...... i would think a drastic change in salinity could affect your fish... btw lower o2 levels would contribute to heavier breathing.....I am battling high salt levels in my new 90 fowlr and have to keep gradually lowering salt level from 1.029 now down to 1.027 within 3 days of replacing tank water with ro water... example: if you had a salinity of 1.024 and now it upped itself to 1.027 due to a water change i would suspect some stress to come about.... shite man i wish i had a full proof answer

.... good luck amigo...
Nick

 

[fishgeek01]

Originally Posted by Vanquish
JUST THOUGHT OF SOMETHING
About two weeks ago I removed the protein skimmer and moved it to another tank because it was doing zero work in my 20 (bio filtration is just too good) could the O2 have slowly depleted and caused them to react like this? Ammonia never increased. Yesterday I put the skimmer back in, and its oxygenating like CRAZY! but no improvement yet... also, the clowns are the only ones sick. Yellow tail, scooter, and goby as well as inverts are all ok.
What are the symptoms of fish suffering from low O2? Does it take a while to rebound?
i would try agitating your water a little with a powerhead that has airline tubing running to it, get some more o2 in the tank, i have seen in the past when someone removes a skimmer, that the o2 bottoms out in a matter of a couple days, one guy actually lost 6 fish iovernight in a 55 because of this, and also at night the redslime is being a o2 user, not producer, so at night and without the lights the redslime is actually contributing to the o2 loss problem, sound sto me like o2 depletion, but i agree that the root of the problem for the RSA needs to be found. Chemicals and quick fixes are never the way to go. Also you removed your skimmer because you thought that it wasnt helping, things like that help even when we dont think that they do, i think the combo of removing the skimming, plus the extra wattage on your lights has caused your RSA and has depleted your o2, i would def try and get some bubbles going in there asap

 

[vanquish]

Originally Posted by Fishgeek01
i would try agitating your water a little with a powerhead that has airline tubing running to it, get some more o2 in the tank, i have seen in the past when someone removes a skimmer, that the o2 bottoms out in a matter of a couple days, one guy actually lost 6 fish iovernight in a 55 because of this, and also at night the redslime is being a o2 user, not producer, so at night and without the lights the redslime is actually contributing to the o2 loss problem, sound sto me like o2 depletion, but i agree that the root of the problem for the RSA needs to be found. Chemicals and quick fixes are never the way to go. Also you removed your skimmer because you thought that it wasnt helping, things like that help even when we dont think that they do, i think the combo of removing the skimming, plus the extra wattage on your lights has caused your RSA and has depleted your o2, i would def try and get some bubbles going in there asap
Thanks for your advise. I put the skimmer back into gear on the 14th, so for the past two days it has been churning out bubbles into the tank. My O2 should be good, but what you said about the RSA is logical... it seems to grow the most over night. I agree with the chem statements. When i was into FW I used chemicals all the time, untill now I have hardly had to. I think I am going to go by the store today and see if I cant get some chemicals to fix the RSA for the mean time since it is completely out of control. I ceaned all the visible slime last night, and this morning it is all over my CC, corals, LR etc. Im going to get a different phosphate absorber as well, because i dont think the one i have now is doing the trick. I'll never remove my protein skimmer again!

The clowns are not doing any better yet... They are still alive though, but the way they are has not changed. I feel like they SHOULD be dead by now... I really hope that returning the skimmer and killing the RSA will help them out.
Please keep the comments coming!

 

[fishgeek01]

Dare i say it, but maybe your clowns have suffered some sort of brain damage from lack of o2, it happens to people, turns them into vegtables, so why not fish, i would imagine them donig better by now if you put your skimmer back on the 14th, also is your skimmer pulling anything out now that it is back on, Maybe the o2 depletion has weekend the immune systems of your fish and now they are battling a bacterial or viral infection. I dont recommend moving them if yo have nothing to go on, but if you notice any pathogens maybe a quarantine tank would be a good spot for them, do you have any other fish, i forget, and dont feel like realing through the thread, how are they doing if you do? i dont know, i am just trying to help, thinking of anything any everything, i had a bad RSA outbreak, it took me 6 wks and every other day water changes to get rid of it, had to keep feeding the tank or things would die so it prolonged the outbreak. I am now dealing with a hair algae outbreak because of a frag that i got... sucks, never had any algae problems in this tank, all my parameters are in acceptable ranges, including phosphates. Dont know how it is still growing the way it is, maybe its a mutant type, yeah right hahaha

 

[miamireefr]

just to sidetrack regarding the hair algae issue I reccomend clean up ifyou dont already have.....for rocks and glass my turbos and assasin blue legs do all the work for me....sand bed is maintained by my pink watchman.... get some emeralds...got 4 in my tank and they keep it up as well....feed them some shredded algae pieces to keep them from picking at anything else.