Complete cure to HLLE?

cogreywolf

Member
I purchase a black tang about 5 months ago from a LFS. The fish had severe HLLE. Anyway, I have been feeding him sheets of Marine algae, frozen brine/squid/bloodworms. I soak the frozen food in Zoecon and Zoe. The tang has made small improvements over the past 5 months, but there is still a lot of scarring. If the scarring is severe, can you ever completely get it to go away??? I do have grounding probe in the sump. Do I need to have another one in the tank???
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
I'd put one in the tank, but scaring is scaring. If flesh deterioration is minimum then it will grow back, just like cuts and bruises on us heal up, but if you actually get a scar, then this will likely remain.
Have a pic?
Grounding probe in tank would be a good idea. Does the tang have all day grazing opportunities?
 

cogreywolf

Member
I will try and get a picture up next week. Will have to borrow the business camera. So should I move the grounding probe from the sump to the tank or do you think I should have one in the sump and one in the tank? As far as grazing habbits go, no he doesn't have all day grazing habbits? I was thinking of buying live macro algae and rubberbanding it to a rock. Do you have any recommendations? Thanks.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Tangs pretty much need to graze all day. That's why I really don't like to put tangs in anything but a large tank where there is a hefty supply of LR with algae and pods, etc.
If your LFS has macros that you can give him several times a wk, then yes, definately do that. If the tang will eat sheets of Nori or Seaweed Selects from a lettuce clip then do that as well.
How is your phosphate and nitrate level?
 

cogreywolf

Member
I have lots of established live rock in the tank for the tangs to graze on. I will start to provide him with macro algae so that he can graze all day. As far as testing goes, my nitrites are 0, nitrates are 50 ppm, but I have never tested my phosphates. I am hoping that with a DSB and regular water changes I can bring down the nitrates. I have only tested for specific gravity, PH, Alkalinity, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, and Calcium. Should I add phosphate to this list? Anything else I should test for??? As far as feeding, if I leave macro algae in the tank for long periods of time, will it contribute add to my bioload???
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
It has been my exp that tangs do get HLLE with higher nitrates, which is why I asked you about it.
Do you have a DSB now? What is your set-up? Filters?
 

cogreywolf

Member
My tank has a brand new DSB with 3" of oolitic agronite sand and 2" of live sand on top of it. It is only about 1 week old. Hope to see some results in 2 months. My setup is a 75 gallon with builtin overflow. I have a Euro Fil 180 sump with a bag filter, a Euro Reef CS6-1 protein skimmer, and about 75-100lbs of live rock. I am using a prefilter and bioballs in the overflow to quiet the overflow down and to add biological filtration. I use RO fresh and saltwater for water changes and for topping off.
 

cogreywolf

Member
Okay, I added macro algae today for my tang to graze on all day. I also purchased vitamin C supplement to go with my Zoe, and Zoecon. I also tested my phosphates today for the first time and got a reading of 0.25- 0.5. From what I can tell, I think this is high, but am not sure. Any recommendations to lower it??? I have heard about a phosguard removal substance, but have heard it can leach back into the tank if I don't remove it in time? How am I introducing phosphate into the tank? Is it waste? From my food? Please Help.:confused:
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
How deep is your sand bed?
IMO both nitrates and phosphates in higher levels can impact HLLE. Test your source water for phosphates.
BTW: I believe that zoe has vit C in it. Don't overdose on supplements. Just a drop or 2.
 

cogreywolf

Member
I will be sure not to overdose of the vitamins. My DSB is 5 inches deep. I am planning on adding a live sand activator kit to add more life. I will test my incoming water for phosphates on my next water change. How often do you recommend water changes? I currently am doing10 gallons every two weeks. Will this suffice? I'll get some pictures this week.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
I would suggest getting rid of the bioballs, as these produce nitrates and really are not good for reef systems. In FO tanks balls have their use, but not in a reef system, and certainly not in a DSB system.
What detritivores do plan to add to the sand bed? Care must be taken here not to add predators of sandbed infauna. You'd be surprised what you think is "good" for DSB, is really detrimental. Even some fish, such as gobies, whose diet is primarily pods, is not a good choice for a true DSB natural system. Likewise, the sand sifting sea star.
Its good that you have a sump. If you can turn your sump area in to a small refuguium with macros, this will be ideal. Myself, I have a good deal of macros in my tank, but I have no predators. If you have tangs and angels, however, they will eat the macros, and demolish the macros as a filter source. In a true DSB system, your emphasis is on natural filtration rather than mechanical filtration. Your sand, rock and plant life become the filters, thus eliminating the need for mechanical filtration--except for the protein skimmer. However, the skimmer, which is "mechanical" is still along the lines of natural. Not so with things like bioballs, filter bags, media, etc.
Here are a few artilces that you might find interesting.....I'd read them carefully and take them to heart.
http://rshimek.com/reef/sediment.htm
http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/a...wb/default.asp
 

cogreywolf

Member
Thanks for the help Beth. I am kinda worried about removing the bioballs in my tank. I feel that a FOWLR needs bioballs. I don't know if my live rock/sand and protein skimmer could sustain my setup. I was thinking of removing the bioballs and putting in a fluidized bed. This way, no waste can buildup on the bioballs. Or do you think this is a waste???
As far as detritivores are concerned, I plan to add the live sand activator kit from Indo-Pacific Sea Farms. Its like GARF.
I would love to have a refugium to grow macros but I don't have alot of space in the stand/sump. I was considering a hang-on refugium but don't like the idea of having lights on all day where I can see them. Any ideas???
I'll take a look at the articles. Thanks for your help.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Well, I can't really see anything from the black pic. In my opinion, the bioballs is the source of the nitrate problem. Your LR and sand should support your system with a skimmer and very good circulation throughout the tank.
How big is your fish load going to be?
 

cogreywolf

Member
Here is the situation. I just upgraded tanks and moved all of my livestock, live sand and live rock over. Went from a 60 gallon to a 75 gallon. I have the following fish load in this tank.
(1) Black Tang (3")
(1) Chevron Tang (2")
(1) Majestic Angel (2")
(1) Flame Angel (1")
(1) Neon Dottyback (2")
(1) Large Cleanup Crew
All are doing well, except the healing on the black tang has been slow.
 
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