Confused about lighting

tommy

New Member
I'm setting up my first saltwater aquarium (had fresh water aquariums for over 15 years) and I'm confused about lighting. I have done a lot of reading and research lately and I'm still confused about the lighting requirements for a saltwater aquariums.
I've read the usual "3-5 watts per gallon" everywhere. But when I try to buy some bulbs online, I see stuff like "10000K, 20000K, 24 in, 48 in, 20W, 40W, etc."
My question is, should I disregard everything else and just go for the right wattage? What's the difference between a 20W 10000K bulb and a 20W 20000K bulb or a 40W 6500K bulb? Are the measurements in inches the dept of my tank or the length of the bulb (I'm hoping it's the depth or I'll have to send the bulbs back).
I want to keep a mini reef in a 20 gal tank with a couple of clowns and corals or anemones later. I have one of those Perfecto hood that you get in pet shops. Another question, will those high lumens or wattages bulbs work in this hood or do I have to upgrade?
Any help on this would really be appreciated. (Keeping it as simple as possible would even be greater appreciated :D )
 

krusk

Member
Hi Tommy
First of welcome to the board.
Kelvin degree "K"
The higher in Kevin will produce more blue.
The higher Kevin will penetrate the water deeper.
Seen you are asking about 20W bulbs or 40W bulbs
20 W are 24" in length (Normal output)
40 W are 48" in length (Normal output)
If you have a 20 G tank. It's about 26" ?
48" bulbs does not fit nicely over your tank :)
How many bulbs can the Perfecto ligth can house?
 

tommy

New Member
Thanks Krusk! :D I'm glad I found this forum. Learning tons.
I guess what I really wanted to know is... ummm how do I put this...
Shouldn't the brightness of the bulb be more important than how many watts it is? I mean if a 40W bulb produces 6500K of light and a 20W bulb that produces 20000K, isn't the 20W bulb more superior since it's brighter?
I understand that the more the wattage a bulb has, the brighter it is, but what's up with the bulbs that are of the same wattage (let's say 20W) and one is rated at 10000K and the other one at 20000K. This would suggest that the brightness of the bulbs are not dependent on wattage but rather on the type of bulbs. Am I totally off base here?
And a 20000K bulb is pretty bright right? Wouldn't one of those babies make my small tank glow light the sun? Do I really have to worry about how many watts it is?
This is why I'm confused. All that I've heard is "get at least 3-5 Watts per gallon." What I want to know is if a certain 100 W bulb that produces only 6500K of light and a 20W bulb that produces 20000K of light, shouldn't I get the 20W bulb cause it's brighter or the 100W one cause it has more wattage?
I'm usually not this dense but it's just not sinking in yet :D
It's not crucial that I undstand all this <img src="graemlins//freak.gif" border="0" alt="[freak]" /> . I guess I just want to know what's the brigthest bulb I can get for my 20 gal mini reef that will fit in my cheap hood. (It can fit only one bulb by the way)
Oh, I have to send the bulbs that I bought back :( The numbers in inches are the length of the bulbs and not how deep my tank is. I could have sworn that I read somewhere that it was the other way around.
Ok too much writing, I'll stop for now.
Any help with shedding some light on my light issue would be greatly appreciated <img src="graemlins//urrr.gif" border="0" alt="[urrr]" />
 

sal t. nutz

Member
Brightness is defined by watts, which is power. The Kelvin rating i.e. 10,000 or 20,000 is not pertainent to the brightness, rather to the segment of the total light spectrum. It basically tells you what color the light will be by the section of the light spectrum it encompases. 20,000K will be more Blue than 10,000K. Blue light has a longer wavelength, so it can travel deeper into the water, but has no baring on the "Brightness".
 

cap'n pete

Member
Tommy,
Welcome. Again, the "K" stands for Kelvin. It is a measurement of light wave. Natural sunlight is around 5500 to 6500K, which is contains a lot of red spectrum light. This has been shown to produce unwanted algea in aquariums and is less useful for keeping marine invertebrates. A bulb spectrum of at least 7500K (also written 75K) is recommended. Most will tell you to go with a 10000K and an actinic. Actinics are pure blue light, which penetrates deep and does not produce green algea. If you are going to have a single bulb you may consider a 50/50 bulb. These are a "mix" of usually 10000K and Actinic. What are the plans for the tank? Reef or Fish Only?
 

cap'n pete

Member
Just got done reading your post again. You will require a lot more light! A good investment now will save you a lot of headaches later. I don't think anyone on the BB likes normal output flourescents. The fade quickly and have minimum output to begin with. A recomended wattage of 3 to 5 watts per gallon is the standard. On a 20 gallon I would personally go with a 24" 55W power compact. I have one on my 29G and plan on adding one more. Custom sealife makes a retrofit that I got for $75. I'm sure you could get it a lot cheaper online. Check <a href="http://www.hellolights.com." target="_blank">http://www.hellolights.com.</a>
 

tommy

New Member
*light bulb comes on over head*
Ahhhhhhh I got it now :D It's sinking in, thanks you guys!
Cap'n Pete, thanks for the link. I think I'm going to go with the 24" 2x 55W Compact Fluorescent / Power Compact Retrofit Kit (http://www.hellolights.com./2x55wretrofit.html)
That's 110W, that should be enough right? But for another $135 that I have to cough up though :mad: I was just thinking the other day, "Did I just paid $50 for that live rock and $40 for that bag of live sand!?" :D
Now I know why I stayed away from a saltwater aquarium for so long. It's expensive! <img src="graemlins//freak.gif" border="0" alt="[freak]" />
Oh! one more question. I have a 20H, will the 24" retrofit kit fit my tank or hood? I ordered 24" bulbs before and that didn't fit.
I'll be keeping a reef with fish by the way.
Thanks mucho!
 

justinx

Active Member
Tommy, I am in the same boat right along with ya. I too have a 20H tank and i am also very confused about lighting. However, to answer your question about your hood, no you wont be able to fit 2x55 PCs in there. With the retrofit kit, you are going to have to build a hood. Unless you order a factory hood that the lights come in. But I would suggest building a hood. Believe me, it is much simpler than it seems, i have already build mine, and it was very easy. If you are interested, I can write up a building plan for a real simple hood that actually looks decent. Its not a pro job, but its a semi pro look. If youre intereseted, i can take som digi pics and email em to you.
 

tommy

New Member
Justin,
I just ordered the kit. And yes, can you show me how to make a hood for it? I was thinking that I can get some glass from Home Depot or something. It would be great to see how you did yours.
Thanks
 

justinx

Active Member
Tommy, give me a couple days to type the thing up and get some pictures taken. I'll try to make it as detailed as possible. As a matter of fact, I am in the process of trying out a new method that will hopefully look even better and be easier to make. So just give me a few days and I email it to you. What is your email? My address is millerj24@yahoo.com Just email me there.
Justin
 

tommy

New Member
sammystingray , thanks for taking the time to explain some more. I was thinking about what Cap'n Pete and Sal T Nutz said at work today and realized that I was still confused <img src="graemlins//confused.gif" border="0" alt="[confused]" />
I was thinking about the same thing you said about heating a metal bar. As it gets hotter, the light that it emits should changes from red, then to white, then eventually to blue. Red being in the lower spectrum and blue in the high.
I was thinking that in order to get blue light, you would either have to add more juice or wattage to make it burn hotter (brighter). That is why I would think that a 20000K bulb would be brighter because it burns hotter. So hot that the light turns blue. Which would suggest that the photons being emitted are stronger and can penetrate deeper. I was thinking that since 20000K bulbs emits light near the blue section of the spectrum, it would be brighter (brighter than white light). I also think that heat and light are related. The hotter it is, the brighter it becomes. So a 20000K bulb would be brighter than a 6500K bulb because it burns hotter. I thought that in order to make it hotter, you just add more juice (watts) but yet there are bulbs with the same wattage that gives off heat in differing Kelvins. And that is what confused me.
Then I started to think further <img src="graemlins//confused2.gif" border="0" alt="[confused2]" /> I figure that in order to get blue light, you can either juice it up with so much wattage that it burns blue, or you can get a regular bulb and paint it blue, or you can get a bulb and somehow isolate all the other colors and just allow the blue to pass through. Then I thought that the 20000K bulbs has to use one of these methods. I doubt that it would be the last 2 methods or they would be falsely advertising "20000K."
Then I started to think that the brightness of a bulb is determined by how hot you can get it. And how hot you can get it is determined by how many watts you give it OR by what technology you use. For example, there are 10000K, 20000K, 6500K bulbs with the same wattage.
I was also thinking that a 20000K bulb would be brighter than a 6500K bulb because it burns hotter. That is why the 20000K bulb looks blue and the 6500K one looks red. Red light is cooler than white, and white is cooler than blue light.
I don't think that the measurements in Kelvin is just what color the light is, because the color of light (not artificially colored) tells how hot it is, and how hot it is determines how bright it is. This is why I thought that brightness was determined by Kelvin and not by wattage. For instance, suppose you have a wire the size of a hair and another one the size of your thigh (pretending that both have extremely high metling points). Suppose you have to use 100W of power to make the smaller wire hot enough to emit white light. It would take more than 100W to make the bigger wire emit the same amount of light as the small one. That is why I thought that brightness was not determined by wattage.
OH! then I really started to think <img src="graemlins//bah.gif" border="0" alt="[bah]" /> about adding more bulbs to make it brighter. I mean does two 55W bulbs make it twice as bright as one 55W bulb? I hear about people getting four 50W bulbs so they can have 200W lighting. This doesn't make sense to me. For example, I have five 20W bulbs in my bathroom (the light is kind of yellowish and dim) and I have a 100W bulb in my room (bright white light). My room looks way brighter than my bathroom. Now if I add the 5 20W bulbs together, it would be 100W, but it's nowhere close to being as bright as one 100W bulb. The only benefit that i see of adding more bulbs is that it covers more space; but it does not add to its brightness. So does that mean if I have four 50W bulbs in my tank that I have only 50W of light? Or do I have 200W of light?
If you're still with me, you must have a lot time on your hand :D
I have an idea.... I think I need to stop thinking
<img src="graemlins//confused2.gif" border="0" alt="[confused2]" />
 

cap'n pete

Member
Tommy,
GOOD GOD MAN! If you must know, do a search on the web or contact a lighting company. You can come up with hypothesis all day long if you want, but why do something that's already done. I understand what your saying about the two bulbs versus one. However, for the most part two 55W PC will produce more light than one. Yes, a single 110W pc may produce more "light" but also produces more heat and just doesn't come in 24". Think in terms of candlepower. If you have a candle, it produces 1 candlepower (just work with me here), if you have 100 it's 100 candlepower and is much brighter than 1 candle.
Most of us are not scientist, we are experienced hobbyist. We can only give advise from our own experiences
.
From what I think I know about fluorescent bulbs, K is the heat needed to produce the light emmited by the bulb. However, the Kelvin rating is produced by different gases and coatings used in the bulb and has little to do with wattage. a 6500K bulb is not "burning" cooler than a 20000K. Kinda like trying to say a blue piece of paper isn't as hot as a red piece of paper.
I would agree that a "high" tank was not a good choice for a tank, but it's too late for that now. The retrofit lights you are getting was a good choice IMO. Good luck.
 

krusk

Member
Q. Why do 20,000K bulb all have different colors? Shouldn't they all be the same if they're marked "20,000K"??
A. Color Temperature ratings (i.e. "K") is more of a marketing term than a true scientific measurement for color. There are far too many variables when it comes to an accurate "K" rating (i.e. ballast type, mnf, temp, bulb position, etc.). Bulbs of the same manufacture can color up differently over time, as the ballast ages. This is why most "K" is used as a reference rather than an absolute. The higher the K, generally the more "blue" the bulb becomes. Sunlight is about 5,500K.
<hr></blockquote>

Kelvin: A measure of how yellow, blue or white the light from a bulb will look to the human eye. Lower kelvin rated bulbs will appear more yellowish, while higher kelvin bulbs appear to be bluer. A bulb with a kelvin rating of between 5000 to 6500 is comparable to mid-day sun. <hr></blockquote>

Color temperature describes the color of the light by comparison with a theoretical radiating blackbody and is measured on the Kelvin temperature scale. Unfortunately, some of the light manufacturers are obviously color blind.
Anyway, if you're into astronomy, you know that a red giant is cooler than a yellow star (like our sun) and that a white star is hotter than a yellow star, and that a blue star is even hotter. If you remember this analogy when thinking of metal halides (which are a point source of light) you would know that a lamp with a lower Kelvin temperature rating (like 4300K) would appear yellow, one with a rating of 10,000K would appear white, one with a rating of 12,000K would appear bluish-white, and one with a rating of 20,000K would appear blue.
Kelvin temperature ratings are only marginally informative when refering to metal halide lamps with full spectrum light. So a 20,000K number is meaningless. The numbers assigned to fluorescent tubes are more a marketing ploy than anything else. The only useful information might be in comparing three different tubes produced by the same manufacturer... this might give you an idea of each tube relative to another tube by the same manufacturer. Just don't compare a tube manufactured this year with the same tube manufactured by the same manufacturer a few years back, because they decided to "move up" all their numbers... 10,000K sounded much better than 5,500K.
<hr></blockquote>
 

sal lynity

New Member
Krusk,
Thanks for taking the time to find that for me.
So basically the Kelvin rating in aquarium light bulbs is just a scam? :mad: Those mean companies trying to make a sale on some of us newbies. shame shame shame :(
Heck I just looked at the highest Kelvin rating and thought "Brightest." Guess not.
Ok it's all clear to me now :D
Oh this is Tommy by the way. I couldn't get back in my previous name. I think I have been booted for asking too many dumb questions :D
 
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