Contemplating removing ALL sand. Questions

[stanlalee]

I dont have but a 1/4" layer for looks anyway BUT at this point I've almost decided da hell with looks I just dont care to have it. there are many reasons but a few are I would have much more aiming options with my powerhead (1400gph), its the 1rst thing to look bad and gets serviced (manually sifted) long before the glass or anything else. In fact its the ONLY thing that requires messing with between water changes. Its the bulk of what gets washed out of my overflow box pre filter. okay thats enough reasons. only reasons I havent done it is I'm not sure I'll like how it looks without sand (might do all that and put it right back) and my fang blennies do some hunting there (dont really care about this, its obviously not enough since I've figured out mine require twice a day feeding to keep from losing weight). so questions:
a) I dont want to touch the aquascaping AT ALL. can I do this without touching my liverock at all (I'm not worried about small amount of residual sand underneith liverock)?
b) Is it safe without anything being down on the glass? I've seen many people put something down before going bare bottom. at this stage thats no option.
c) just how bad do you think it will look without sand? (recent enough pic. not much has changed except the addition of one stylo).

If I do it I'll probably just throw the sand in the sump.

 

[natclanwy]

Many European tanks run bare bottom with no sand, I don't care for the look and I prefer using a Deep Sand bed for nitrate removal rather than relying on water changes but to each his own, I have seen tanks successfully run both ways. I think the issues you have could actually be solved by running a deeper sandbed that is capable of supporting life but that is not your question.
If you are planning on moving the sand to the sump you might be able to use a syphon to vaccum the sand from the tank and have it empty into your sump, and you won't have to worry about how much water you are removing. You will probably want to have some sort of mechanical filtration to filter out the silt that will be stirred up.
I have seen people put a piece of acrylic or glass between the bottom of the tank and the live rock to prevent any breakage from a rock slide. This isn't an option for you though unless you want to remove all of your rock. I also have seen people glue a thin layer of sand to the bottom not sure what they used as an adhesive though.

 

[b0b82]

So why do you think you need so much circulation? What you need is more rock. You can also add some smaller rocks where the power heads point to stop the sand from moving. If anything I would add more sand like 2" to 3"over the bottom. This is just my opinion, do as you like as I know you will. This is an old picture I have more rock now and still want more.

 

[stanlalee]

Originally Posted by b0b82
http:///forum/post/2848521
So why do you think you need so much circulation? What you need is more rock. You can also add some smaller rocks where the power heads point to stop the sand from moving. If anything I would add more sand like 2" to 3"over the bottom. This is just my opinion, do as you like as I know you will. This is an old picture I have more rock now and still want more.
where the powerhead is now I dont have a problem with sand blowing. I meant with no sand I could experiment putting it virtually ANYWHERE without worrying about a sand storm and perhaps allow me to remove the Koralia 1. I wouldn't say thats a primary reason for wanting it gone. More because I cant keep it white. I have that much flow for several reasons. 1) I dont like powerheads. I planned on having just that one so it needed to be strong. I just put the K1 in there because it really helps create turbulence faced towards the main one. I'd LOVE to remove the K1 2) eventually the plan is to pack it with SPS and as is my LPS and fish arent whipping around from it, not even the low flow acans or candy cane so I havent deemed it too strong and 3) I would say a primary reason was to push as much flow as possible without actually blowing sand all over (hell I tried the 2100gph prop lol) to help KEEP THE SAND CLEAN with good flow

. Flow is great across the sand bed, all of it but still

the problem with 2-3" more sand to solve the problem is while I'm not sure if I'll not like the look of it bare bottom I know I dont like the look of sand that rises past the tank frames lower border. never have. I actually have a crap load more sand just sitting in a circulating 10g as well as an empty nano with a 2" layer of florida keys live sand. I have been thinking maybe rubble rock or perhaps going nuts on low dwelling corals to fill in the space. I may just wait it out a little too. the tank is just approaching thr 6 month mark.

 

[zshain012]

yea I would just remove the sand if it's such a hassle.

 

[natclanwy]

I'm not trying to sell you on a sand bed, but I'm not quite sure why you are sure that adding flow will cause a sand storm, I have a 55g tank with 2600gph flowing through it, I have a K4 on one end pointed towards the opposite corner, a K3 on the opposite end pointed towards the opposite corner, I have a canister that returns 200gph through a spray bar and my return pump also returns 400gph through a spray bar with the holes aligned so that it blows down the side of the tank and across the bottom and through the rock. I also have very fine sand the grains are much finer than suger so they move around very easily. I have my flow patterns directed so that I get very little sand movement. With the amount of flow that I have and the nature of my substrate if anything is out of place it will move sand in fact if a snail decides to camp out on the sand for too long I get a sand dune. The trick is to point the powerheads and wait, anytime you change the flow it will take some time for everything to settle out and find an equilibrium especially if you are getting enough flow along the sand bed to suspend any dietrus. The only thing you are trying to prevent is you powerhead from digging a large hole and exposing the bottom or shifting your Live rock, a little sand moving around isn't a big issue and will eventually stop but it might take a couple of days though.
As far as seeing the sand on the side of the tank you could install a piece of trim over the front of the tank so that it hides the sandbed.

 

[groupergenius]

Bare bottom is fine IMHO. My 90SPS and 40 frag plumbed together are BB. I NEVER have nitrates in this system. When you truly want a lot of flow in a tank, sand is a major PITA. And acheiving major flow in a tank will better help remove detritus and unwanted leftovers.
But, it's like anything else. Everyone has an opinion.

 

[nwdyr]

I know how ya feel! I have had CC and sand and I have the same prob with my sand tank , like someone said above maybe more LR and take the sand out

that sounds like a good option to me.

 

[dse]

Originally Posted by natclanwy
http:///forum/post/2848491
Many European tanks run bare bottom with no sand, I don't care for the look and I prefer using a Deep Sand bed for nitrate removal rather than relying on water changes but to each his own, I have seen tanks successfully run both ways. I think the issues you have could actually be solved by running a deeper sandbed that is capable of supporting life but that is not your question.
If you are planning on moving the sand to the sump you might be able to use a syphon to vaccum the sand from the tank and have it empty into your sump, and you won't have to worry about how much water you are removing. You will probably want to have some sort of mechanical filtration to filter out the silt that will be stirred up.
I have seen people put a piece of acrylic or glass between the bottom of the tank and the live rock to prevent any breakage from a rock slide. This isn't an option for you though unless you want to remove all of your rock. I also have seen people glue a thin layer of sand to the bottom not sure what they used as an adhesive though.
I'm european and have a medium sand bed and all lfs bang on for going for dsb and my friends from holand and france who own swt's they also have a medium size sand bed about 1"-1 1/2" plus on the uk site i go on ~(they are rude btw) they like dsb like your self i'll see if any of my polish friends like dsb or no sand or inbetween..
but i like 1" sand beds!

 

[geoj]

Originally Posted by dse
http:///forum/post/2848890
I'm european and have a medium sand bed and all lfs bang on for going for dsb and my friends from holand and france who own swt's they also have a medium size sand bed about 1"-1 1/2" plus on the uk site i go on ~(they are rude btw) they like dsb like your self i'll see if any of my polish friends like dsb or no sand or inbetween..
but i like 1" sand beds!
+1 for shallow from SoCal

No trate's here...

 

[stanlalee]

So its done. got bored yesterday and went on with the task. Out went the sand and out went the Koralia 1 (into a 6g nano). I'll siphon the residual sand in future water changes. I aleady ended up doing a 15g water change getting what I got out. The sand is in the sump so now I have a measured 4.75" deep sand bed in the fuge. I'm already happy its gone from the display! everything was relatively stable. only had to adjust the rocks on the far left and right slightly.
before

after. not much different visually but much better for my psychy. I'm thinking a Vortech MP20 to really minimize the whole powerhead visual.

perhaps I should have cleaned the glass before this pic. you can only see the top half of the sand because the stand is blocking the rest.

 

[stumblinras]

it looks a lot better than i imagined it would,gives it a kinda clean look.i think having a little under the LR a little residule around the rest is a good middle ground between no LS and 3'' of LS.I think it worked out pretty good.