Converting 55g FW to SW

[lolitsafish]

I currently have a 55g freshwater tank with a few cichlids in it. I have been offered an opportunity to convert it to Saltwater as a gift.I have no saltwater experience, and only about 1 year of freshwater experience. What would be a a successful process for this?
I am looking to do a fowlr setup. Live rock, live sand, a few small fish and maybe a larger fish as a centerpiece?
The fish I am currently looking at as options are:
Coral Beauty Angelfish
Green Clown Goby
Black and White Ocellaris Clownfish
Orange Lined Cardinalfish
Yellowtail Damselfish
Carpenter's Flasher Wrasse
Kaudern's Cardinal
From my basic research these fish will all work well together temperament wise except for the damsel's which from my reading at this forum are real buggers because they can be aggresive and are hard to remove from your tank. But I have no idea these fish would work together in the same environment or really what environments they require.
I am hoping to put in an UGJ system with more than likely 4 jets and 150gph of flow per jet. This would hopefully cause a current and also keep debris circulating till it is removed by a filter.
I am hoping to find out what lights I should get (I currently have two separate hoods each with one light, they arn't the best quality from what I have seen. I am not even sure what type they are, I think they may be incandescent ). I also hope to learn how much liverock to buy if at all, what plant life may be necessary, what inverts, and all that other good stuff.
I am basically starting from nothing and working up.

 

[gemmy]

Welcome to SWF! The first thing I would recommend doing is determining what type of filtration system you would like to run on your tank. There are several options and they include sump, sump with refugium (a refugium provides a place for sand and macroalgae to live as well as pods), wet/dry filter, canister or HOB (hang on back). Sumps with refugiums are a popular choice since they provide extra water volume to the tank. I would research the types of filtration and decide on the one that is good for you.
Are you 100% set on FOWLR? If so, then the lights you have are fine. Fish do not have lighting requirements, however it is necessary to replicate the day/night cycle. If you do decide on corals later, then you can upgrade the lighting at that time. I would recommend removing the hood if possible. The lid will hinder the oxygen exchange that is needed to remove CO2 from the tank.
Powerheads are necessary to provide good water movement. You will need to replicate the ocean's current, and positioning is the key to do this. I would recommend 3-4. I have a 55 reef tank and I have 4. Improper flow can lead to issues such as cyano bacteria blooms.
I would recommend about 60-65 lbs of rock. Live rock is also a crucial piece (along with sand) as it serves as the main piece of biological filtration. You can purchase 45 lbs of dry rock or base rock (cheaper) and seed it with 25 lbs of live rock.

 

[lolitsafish]

I am trying to work with a minimum sound and space footprint, but depending on how complicated it is I may be able to do a refugium. My predicament is that my 55g is currently on the second floor of a house, which in itself is fine as long as I dont overload the support beams. Problem is my parents are limiting how many and how big tanks I can get which is reasonable.

Next predicament isn't actually too bad at all, the stand for my tank is a sufficiently sized heavy wooden desk, which conveniently has leg area underneath it. This could be used to house a a cubic tank if of maybe 20 gallons, I have yet to measure it.
I am not 100% set on fowlr but it seems like the less complicated route and investment and time wise seems like a slightly simpler route.
For the hoods for the light what would you advise? They are really the only light source for the tank and also prevent large scale evaporation and if I were to remove them or lift them evaporation would be more of a problem then it already is (my tank seems to lose water relatively quickly). I also have cats so I wouldnt want any of them screwing with my tank.
This is what I am looking at for water movement, it is run by powerheads: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ug_jets.php
I dont understand this whole seeding thing, it just doent make sense to me as to why you could put dead rock in a tank and some live rock and its brought to life.
And I do understand the importance of live sand and live rock as filtration and also a food source. I have read that with enough live rock you can remove any need for mechanical filtration, how much would that be?
EDIT: I just found this site which offers a seemingly very convenient package for stocking your tank with live rock, sand, and the apparently necessary creatures. The site:http://www.tampabaysaltwater.com/
The problem is when I checked their listed stuff for what you should get for a 55gallon fish tank, it is very expensive. Around the 700 dollar range. Direct quote:
"Let's say you are setting up a 55 gallon reef tank. The recipe calls for:

• 
  110 pounds of live rock: $550.00
• 
  55 pounds of live sand: $110.00
• 
  55 blue leg hermits: $82.50
• 
  28 Astrea snails: $42.00
• 
  2 serpent stars: $19.90
• 
  2 tiger tail cucumbers: $19.90
• 
  2 Peppermint shrimp: $19.90
• 
  8 Shipping Boxes: $64.00
  This ends up being a total of $908.20 at regular prices, but when you purchase "The Package" you save almost 25%

• ! Total price of "The Package" for a 55 gallon reef tank is only $690.00

• :
  Live Rock is only $4.00 per lb.
  Live Sand is only $1.00 per lb.
  Blue Leg Hermits are $1.00 each
  Astrea Snails are $1.00 each
  Serpent Stars are $6.00 each
  Tiger Tail Cucumbers $6.00 each
  Peppermint Shrimp $6.00 each"

 

[deejeff442]

first off you cant put live critters in a new tank that hasnt cycled yet.so the package deal is out.
dead rock(base rock) is going to come to life when the tank cycles and the bacteria spreads and grows on it also some already cured live rock having Coraline,sponges and what ever else the rock has on it will eventually spread to the base rock.if you are on a budget go to craigs list and look for rock i find it for $3 .also i dont bother buying live sand aragonite sand will also become live with the bacterias soon enough.
the difference between salt tanks and freshwater is flow alot of flow.freshwater doesnt need much flow to work but flow in a salt tank is crucial.i would look at a couple #3 koralia pumps.they disperse water alot better than rio straight out of the chute pumps.
i dont run any filtration on my tank just alot of lr and waterflow.but at first you might want to add a hang on filter untill the tank matures and the rock grows good bacteria.
you need to look in the new hobbyist forum and read up on how to cycle a tank.if you rush a saltwater tank you will surely be in big trouble.

 

[lolitsafish]

I know about cycling a tank, I have cycled freshwater before. And besides, if you check the live rock website it states that they will send you the sand and half of the live rock, then once you cycle they will send you the rest of the liverock which has the living things growing on it and the creatures that they say are necessary. But anyway, I wasn't questioning if it would work or not. I am asking if it was a good value. But anyway, the $690 is out of my price range, I dont have that large of a budget.

 

[deejeff442]

sorry didnt look at the site.your really not supposed to post competitors sites here.
looks like a good deal although i dont like cucumbers if they die they can poison the tank.
although i would put all the rock in first.if they send the second half later it will start another cycle because of the die off in the shipping.
like i said check out c-list there are people dropping out of this hobby all the time.
i found a 55 gallon tank,stand,lights,two hob filters for $100

 

[lolitsafish]

Thanks for the warning, wouldn't have even known it was a competitors site because I didn't know there was a store till you said that. Yah, I found a guy selling live rock $2 a lb, guess i will check him out for how the rocks look.

 

[d-man]

from what I've seen (comparing my ok salt water tank to my brothers bigger better fresh water) salt water tanks are quite a bit more money than fresh water so I would ether try to plan ahead and save up for each item or go diy as much as you can. I don't think your going to be able to make a tank that functions only off live rock. You might be able to with a fuge, but your still going to have to do more water changes that in the long run will end up costing you money. Do you know about rodi water vs tap water? Have you looked into protein skimmers? if you ask me they are the most used peace of filtration out there and I have run a tank with just a fuge and a skimmer (I would recommend carbon or other chemical filtration too for a beginner) if your looking to cut down on costs by not having to replace media. What are you using to filter your fresh water tank?

 

[deejeff442]

$2 sweet.i would get 50 lbs and a couple bags of aragonite sand and that should be a good start.the sand should be pretty cheap.local chain pet shop will have it.i like a 1 inch sand bed myself just enough to cover the bottom .but its up to you on that.
the fish list look pretty good except lose the damsel.although i have had my blue yellow tail for 8 years and he isnt mean but its rare.
cardinals are mellow so the damsel will probably pick on them.
55 is a nice size starter tank i started with a 45 ,still have it 27 years later.
get yourself a water test kit and a refractor they are a must and will save you alot of money down the road.

 

[lolitsafish]

thanks, and first person to actually comment on the fish I think. What numbers should I pick? I know that angels should be by themselves because they're agressive towards other angels usually, and I have heard gobies like pairs. I am also thinking of adding mandarin dragonets to the list, would they be acceptable?

 

[d-man]

I agree with the c list part, I've got some of my best corals off c-list, but you might want to read up on parasites a little. I've also had to deal with flat worms and other things, ask him why he is getting out of the hobby or if he's just getting rid of things to start over. If you put the damsel in last it will be less aggressive, you have to wait until all the other fish have found their homes and figured out the pecking order. Why people are not really talking about the fish as much is because there are other factors (like filtration, cuc, live rock for hiding spots) that will affect how many fish you can have. I'm pretty sure the clown goby is territorial to it own type but fine with others, and I would say stay away from mandarins until you know you can keep a saltwater tank, and even if you do want them quick make sure your tank (hopefully with fuge if with mandarins) is very established. It will help if you know they mandarins eat frozen food.
What type of filtration do you have and what are you thinking of using?

 

[lolitsafish]

On my freshwater fish tank I am currently running two penguin 350's if thats what your asking. For the saltwater tank I hope to do I am hoping to either get a used protein skimmer, make one, or just have enough live rock and water flow to negate the need for it. Whichever is more cost effective.

 

[d-man]

But yes over all I think all of the fish should be just fine together.

 

[deejeff442]

with the fish you listed imo you wont need a skimmer.big fish like puffers,lg. angels ect is probably a must.just get new biowheels for the filters and that would work great.
the little 150 gph pumps wont do for a 55 gallon.go on the "bay" site and look for koralias great pumps for salt tanks.
like d-man said ,mandarins are a tough fish to keep and need copepods to survive.getting copepods to breed in a tank is a whole other subject.

 

[flower]

In my opinion if you are going to have coral you will absolutly need a skimmer.

 

[lolitsafish]

I am assuming the 150 gph is from the UGJ I was reffering too? They are not an actual jet, they are powered by a much large powerhead which goes through a piping system and shoots water out of multiple jets, and each one will have around 150gph, they prevent dead zone by being able to be placed anywhere you can pipe and also create nice varied current systems.

 

[d-man]

you might be able to work with 450gph over all in the hole tank if you get the right angles on things, but I do think it may end up being a little low. I would keep the penguins to start with so that you can add carbon with them. I don't know if you need new bio wheels or can just wash them (I'm leaning on the wash them side), but if you need to you can put extra carbon in it with a sock. Their not amazing, but until you get something better you can use them for water turn over and what ever bio you do get out of them. I have been very happy with my romra aquac nano skimmer (a bit smalll for you, but if you ran a bigger pump on it you might be able to get away with it) for the price. Did you check the PM I sent you? like I said I have not tried it yet, but you could make one of those ATS for cheap and people say their great.

 

[lolitsafish]

The link is very interesting. I am thinking of buying maybe a 10g or 15g tank that my lfs usually carries used for cheap, clean it, and then try and set this up in a sump. That way I can also have my heater in it and run water into it for water changes. Anything else somebody should add to a sump?

 

[d-man]

are you going to drill your tank or get an hob over flow? I might try to get a 29g (pretty standard size) for your sump and make it into a sump/fuge. I think if your going to do the work to get a return pump and figure out how your running your water out of your tank, you might as well put a fuge in between your skimmer/heater section and your return pump section. I'll sent you a pm to a sight that helped me understand all this more.
oh ya you could put a ATS in your sump

 

[lolitsafish]

I dont want to drill my tank so I will do a HOB over flow. The refugium seems much like the algae scrubber to me, are they the same? But I really like the idea of increasing tank surface area with a sump, no mechanical filters with the algae scrubber, and having the display tanks water level never drop, only the sump tanks.
EDIT: Just measured the size of the leg area in the desk, its not very large. It is 19x19x22 (LxWxH) if I were to fill it perfectly with a tank. I thought it was bigger than it really is. That means I am either looking at a custom sump, a 5 gallon bucket, or a very oddly shaped tank.