Copper experiment

[craig110768]

I'm having major problems getting the copper treatment - to get to the correct level.
Oh, and yes the test kit was in the same box as the copper - so yes, the copper kit does work!!
Read my frustating experiment.
1. First added 6 drops to 1g of pure tap water, and the correct copper level was hit immediately.
2. Added the same number of drops to 1g of distilled water, and immediatly hit the correct copper level.
3. Took 1g of main tank water and added the same amount of copper. NO mark on the copper scale -why????
3. Added the correct number of drops to 5g of distilled water, and that hit the correct copper mark. I then decided to add the sea salt, and turned on a powerhead. 15 minutes later the copper level was 0. So basically I'm back to square one.
Where I'm I going wrong here - this is getting so frustrating. I'm now thinking its the sea salt, as that buffers the water to 8.3pm and removes chlorine - but no mention of metals though.
All i'm trying to do do, is get the correct level of copper in 5g of water that is the correct gravity, and PH.
I'm now thinking of going to my lfs and purchasing the water with the salt already in.
Please don't respond, if your asking - why i'm I'm doing copper, and not hypo. Yes, I am using the right copper test kit!!!
Some please respond here. Has anybody had the same issues.

 

[beth]

What copper brand is it? Could it be that the copper is just for FW?

 

[craig110768]

No its a marine copper test for a marine aquariumn. Its by Red sea testing for non-chelated copper. The is a bottle to test the level of copper and and other bottle used to add copper.
I have put about over 200 drops into 5g tank, and still its 0, - no I have not put the fish in yet. I should have hit the correct level at about 40 drops. With no salt it was perfect. Can't undersand this.
Looks like I will give up and use formalin to help get rid of the velvet. This is hopeless at the moment. I spoke with my lfs I they said, they don't use copper, and had no idea.
Any other suggestions??

 

[craig110768]

Forgot to mention, that I have no carbon in the tank, just regular filter that was switched off while I was doing this. So basically, just a 5g tank, with nothing in there.

 

[beth]

You really shouldn't use formalin directly in to the hospital tank. Formalin is useful for short-term bathes, but it can be too toxic for continuous use.
Red Sea, so I have heard, have notoriously bad test kits. Copper is the best choice for treating velvet.

 

[craig110768]

Thanks Terry B and Beth for the comments. I appreciate it. I have some more questions though
I not really sure if its ick or velvet. All I know is that there are a lot of white spots on the puffer, and all over the fins - all fins, and on his back. The spots are bigger on the fins, than on his back.
I first started using Kick-ick, but that doesn't seem to be working, so I thought maybe it was velvet, and that medication was just for ick. I find it real hard to distingish between the two diseases - there are a lot of very small white spots. The fish *was* breathing very heavily, a few days ago, to the expent you could see his whole body expanding and contracting. Although I don't see him scrating though.
I has done so much reading on this topic, and the life cycle of the paracite. I purchased a UV to help kill the paricates in the free-swimming stage for the main tank, but in the mean time - i have this puffer not looking good.
People have said that velvet will kill rapidly, but how quick is that. I would just love to be able to narrow it down to just Ick and not velvet and then maybe that will help me picking the meds.
I may look into the Cupramine now. Terry B, I have not heard of that. I got the last test kit from petsmart - I will see if they have that there.
Can some please tell me how, to setup a copper medication. Why will the copper not even make a mark in 1g of water that I take from the main tank. Should I just take 5g of main tank water and add some cupramine to it in the QT. Will that work?
Any comments.

 

[craig110768]

Thanks for the quick response.
You mention not to use any water conditioners. I use tap-water for my main tank, thus I have had to put conditioner in that. Could I still use water from there, if I have not topped up the water in that tank with conditioned water for a couple of days. Basically, what I'm asking is, how long does the conditioner work for.
I will definitely try the cupramine. I guess from what your saying, I must have Ick, not Velvet, as all the fish are still alive and the puffer in a separate tank has spots and the others do not. Yes, i'm aware that it could be on the other fish hidden in the gills, but they seem fine.
Although, I have noticed though that they like to hide a lot when I go hear the glass of the tank. They never use to. Is something up there?? They seem to swim fine and not hiding when I'm away from the tank.

 

[beth]

I'm with Terry...even though you said not to ask, I'm dumbfounded!
Seems to me that you had another thread a wk or so ago on this same subject. Did you? If so, I must say, that your pufferfish would have been well on its way to good health if you had begun using hypo back then. What is up? Did you have a bad exp or something?
I know of no one who has ever complained about ill-effects with hypo, contrary to the use of copper.
If you are worried about trying something new, we are here to walk you thru the whole process.

 

[craig110768]

The main reason why i'm looking at copper. Is this.
I read this message-board a few weeks ago, and then spoke to my lfs, and they said it was not a very good idea to do Hypo - he said it was crazy. Especially when I said I needed to bring it down to .009. He first thought .015.
He said that he had been in fish business for 30 years and never ever done that. He said it was just too dangerous.
A friend from work, who has a 300g tank, said I was stupid in doing something that could be fixed with some medicin.
I hear you all talk out Hypo, but I have never read this in any book. I have done so much research over the last fews weeks and the only place Hypo is being pluged is here. Terry B, You maybe right, don't take this the wrong way, please. Maybe I should just try it, ignoring the comments from the lfs. Not to mention the 100 dollars or the refract. that would be needed.
I may try doing hypo this coming weekend, in the QT. I will let you know, and hopefully I may get some pointers from you.
Thanks again.
Craig

 

[katherine]

Craig:
I started using the hypo method with great success. On May 2nd, I changed the salinity of my QT from 1.022 to 1.013 in the course of 48 hours so as not to stress the fish too much. As of today all the ich has disappeared from my trunk cubicus and my perc.clown. I wanted to let you know this worked for me because UNFORTUNATELY I tried using copper at the first signs of ich, and lost my purple tang, yellow tang, and my regal blue tang as a result. I believe the kit I purchased (suppose to work with the medication according to the lfs guy) did not measure the copper correctly. While using hypo. the fish have been very perky and eating well. No signs of stress seen.
Hope this helps.

 

[beth]

I have been moding this forum for over 2 yrs and never once had anyone report back to tell me that hyposalinity did not work, or that it was detrimental to their fish. Contrarily, everyone who has used it [even the very reluctant] are now die-hard advocates.
On the other hand, any fish-retailers I have ever spoken to about treating their infested tanks with hyposalinity, don't even know what the heck I'm talking about...and don't want to know either, I might add. Too bad for their fish.

 

[craig110768]

Hi Terry B, Beth, Anthem
Thats for the advice. I have started just started to do Hypo on my puffer fish in the QT tank. Well, I have at least started to bring down the gravity. Maybe by wednesday, and will be at .009.
I have come to the conclusion due to your reactions, that I have medicated poor spike (thats his name) too much, with kick-ick, copper, formalin and what ever else. I was going to try Cupramine like you suggested. But decided otherwise, due to the amount of medication i've already put him through. I guess he's also wondering when I going to sort him out ;-) - it has been a while!
I will let you all know the progress of this Hypo treatment.
I'm an avid reader of this message-board since I got my tank, 3 months ago. You guys give good advice.
Thanks again for the advice, and i will let you know the progress of spike.

 

[craig110768]

Yes, I'm aware of that, but what I thought I might do, is just treat this puffer in the QT tank. He is the only one that looms sick. If its works as expected, then, without compications, I may the do the whole display tank also.
If i get ick again, once I put the puffer back in the main tank, I will hypo the whole tank. I didn't have a UV filter when I got ick originally.
Maybe, ick is still in the main tank - thats true, but the UV filter is helping, and also, then fish are less stressed - maybe they are fighting it off. I lost a few fish early on - due to too many fish introduced together. The tank is a lot more mature now, and params. very stable.
If I was to do some Hypo on the main tank, I would take out the lr and scrimp. I will make that decision in a few weeks.
What do you think, of this concept? I'm I on the right lines?

 

[craig110768]

Yes. I agree. I have been given good advice. So you think i should do the whole tank and be done with it, rather than risk it again once the puffer its back in there.
Should I put spike back in that main tank now? Wouldn't that immediately risk the other fish?
I'm in the process of looking at buying one of the books suggested: Fish Disease: Diagnosis and treatment by Edward J. Noga.
Any comments?
thanks
craig

 

[tallyho]

What are the consequences of straying below .009.
rgds

 

[beth]

Yes, you should go ahead a treat all your fish, otherwise, you will be treating fish for 2 mos, instead of 1. However, you must be sure not to treat a tank that has LR, LS or inverts. If your current setup has LS, then it won't survive hypo. How many fish do you have?
To avoid dropping too low or not low enough, use 2 hydrometers to measure the specific gravity/salinity of the water.

 

[craig110768]

thanks beth. will try

 

[tallyho]

Where can I find a scale that relates specific
gravity to salinity? Does 14ppt equate to 1.009?

 

[pancho]

hi craig
well hypo isn't all that bad like everything else has it's good and bad points i use it more as an preventive than an treatment. in fact the 1st time i used it was by accident when i forgot to put salt in the water and left it that way for six weeks, (that happens when u change 8 tanks in one day) but if yo don't want to try it and you want to get rid of the velvet prob try using salt water coppersafe.

 

[beth]

Most of the swing arm [or any salinity test instruments for that matter] will give you readings of both specific gravity and salinity. 1.009 is a measure of specific gravity which is equvilent to 15ppm salinity...well within acceptable [short-term] parameters for marine fish.