copper problem. need expert

herbbie

Member
I think I have come to the conclusion that I have a serious copper problem. I will take you back in time for about the last year to describe what has happened up to today, so you can get a clearer picture of the history. I have a 2oo gal reef system, all parts bought new. I use RO water for water changes and top offs. My LFS guy sold and set me up with pretty much the best equipment around. I know that I have the proper set up. Lots of LR, an ecosystem filteration in my sump MH lights, etc. It is a glass tank. My LFS guy set me up and he maintains the tank for me once a week. Everything was going along just fine. In order to make life easier for me, my husband made me a "Willy Wonka" feeding tube, so I could feed the fish easier. Although everything he used that went into the tank was safe, he had used a copper band to help hold the tube in place. The copper band was not in the water. A few months after that, my Hard corals started to die. My LFS said that's the way it goes sometimes. That if you take a tree out of the woods, and transplant it into your backyard, it won't always grow. Then my crabs started to die. At first the LFS guy thought I had Mantis shrimp. But, that didn't make complete sense to me, because I was losing everything, including the copepods and the caulerpa. I started getting suspicious that it had something to do with the feeding tube, because the problems started showing up a few months after the feeding tube was installed, and upon closer inspection I saw that the copper was corroding, and I'm sure copper had gotten into the tank. My LFS started beefing up the poly filters. At this stage of the game, hair algae started creeping in, and within a couple of months, our tank starting growing hair algae like you wouldn't believe. My LFS guy, started scrubbing the rocks, and tinkering a little bit here and there, but not really making any headway. He didn't feel the copper was an issue any more, and the real issue was that the Caulerpa was not growing. He doesn't seem to believe in test kits much, as he never tested for copper, and doesn't ever do much testing of the water parameters. Every week he would bring in a bunch of caulerpa, and every week it would die. Then he brought some sea cucumbers into the sump to try and get the cucumbers to sift through the sand and stir things up. Well, one of the cucumbers ended up getting into the pump intake, and basically every fish I had died within hours. Right about then he thought that my sand bed in the ecosystem had gone anaerobic, and that is why the caulerpa wouldn't take hold. So, he ordered a new sandbed from ecosystem for $340. He put that in, along with some caulerpa and left. The caulerpa died, and the sump got an outbreak of cyanide (?) bacteria (The red algae that's not algae). So, he treated that with eurythromyacin, which of course cleared up that symptom. Anyway, he really believed that the anaerobic sand bed was the reason my caulerpa wouldn't grow, and if we could get the caulerap to grow, the hair algae would be gone. I do agree that the caulerpa is part of the big problem, however, my belief is that the caulerpa is not growing for a reason. So every week for the last 2 months, he brings in a new bunch of caulerpa, to replace the bunch that didn't grow and died. He really believes every week that the caulerpa is going to take hold. He decided to use tap water the last water change, and that increased the algae bloom. He thinks it's time to replace the bulbs in my MH and my sump, which I agree is probably time, but I don't really believe that is at the heart of my algae problem. At this stage of the game, I'm getting upset. The crustaceans are living longer, and I've got copepods, but I'm still losing crustaceans. I finally added fish after about 3 months of no fish from the cucumber meltown, and I lost 3 immediateley. No ick, they just died. I started to push my LFS into why do I have so much hair algae, why are things still dying, why doesn't the caulerpa grow. I said, I don't know that much, but if hair algae is excessive nutirents, where are they coming from. I haven't had any fish, or fed anything for 3 months? Again, he goes back to getting the caulerpa to grow. And I agree. However, I've been doing some research on the net over the last week or so, and I feel all of this goes back to the copper problem, as this is when things started to go south. My question for you experts is this.....How do i get rid of the copper?
 

oscardeuce

Active Member
I'm a newbie, but I run cuprisorb and a heay metal sponge in my sump all the time to trap heavy metals. They are availible on line dr foster and smith and others (I don't know if swf carries).
They are color changing resins,and can be renewed with muratic acid. Cu should not kill the fish though.
Tom
 

michaeltx

Moderator
man that sucks.
here is what I would do though. DOnt really so heavily on the LFS or tank maintence people some are good but with someone not using test kits is just asking for it there are many many things that can go wrong and a test kit is the only way to know whats going on for sure.
my advise is this get a master test kit and test the water yourself and show the results here. if he is adding chemicals to the tank there could be massive amounts of chemicals that have built up in the tank and have become toxic from this. iodine is one that is used but not at great amounts usually so if you keep adding it it just builds up in the system after a while it will become toxic to everything.
also get a copper test kit and see if it shows anything if there is copper in the system it might be fueling the growth and killing things off but copper doesnt kill fish just inverts. lighting that has shifted spectrum will also cause an algae outbreak..
list some details about your system like how much LR, Sand, lighting, pumps, filters etc.. and hopefully someone can help you narrow it down some. but with the guy that just wants to add more macros and not test for anything and just get new stuff for the tank sounds IMO only that he is out for dough maybe not but seems to me anyone that has something to do with this hobby knows how important a test kit is and would use them...
IMO
Mike
 
S

sebae0

Guest
also i would stop him from adding medications to the tank, if i remember corectly i think erythimycin can destroy all bacteria populations in the tank thus causing a "new cycle" because it killed everything. test the water and post back i think then will will be able to help better. good luck
 

herbbie

Member
OK. I got a test kit for copper, and from what I can tell from the test, I don't have a copper issue. I even tested fresh made water with IO to see if there was a difference, and they both read the same. Also, I tested for Phosphates, and that read within normal range. I did test the water params about a week ago, and everything was normal except Ph a little low and calcium a little high. We also really, really, really looked close in the fuge for any pests, and found nothing. It looks like the cyanide (I know that's not what it's called) bacteria is coming back. One thing about the caulerpa. In the fuge it's dying, or not taking hold and then dying, but my LFS put a batch in the display tank, and it was doing good, until the new Tang I put in got a hold of it. But, it seemed to be growing, well at least not dying, for about 2 weeks, but the caulerpa put in the fuge at the same time died. So, that is a mystery. Any ideas as to why the caulerpa won't grow? Has anyone had experience with that? I really want to figure this out. My LFS guy is trying, but I want to take a more proactive step in this, as this has been going on for almost a year, and I am really starting to lose hope.
 

herbbie

Member
I have what I think are compaq's (??) They are the flourescent kind. I have MH 400's on top. My LFS said he is bringing new bulbs and going to add another unit to the fuge. Also, he is ordering new bulbs for the MH. I'm sure it's time for a bulb change, it's been a little over a year. The caulerpa in the fuge did thrive and grow, until the die off in my tank. So, I'm not sure if they are just not coming back because of weak bulbs. We've done some study on the net about caulerpa, and it seems that it can grow under many different lighting conditions. Also, we keep the lights on the fuge 24/7. Again, any thoughts on where to even look beyond where we have is helpful.
Sorry about the long posts!!!
 

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
Herbie:
glad you are doing your own testing and hope you no longer are using that LFS. Low PH will make it extremely difficult to keep fish especially if the ph dropped suddenly.
All sand beds have some anaerobic bacteria and that is what makes DSB's process the nitrAtes. I personally feel use of plant life is much more effective.
There are different forms of caulpera and I have had problems with a long feather type. But from what you say I have had similiar experiences with the common kelp like caulpera. I would put various macros in my display and the livestock would eat it in about 2-3 weeks. I fired up an old 20g long and cultured the macros and plants in that tank. Each week I would transfer some to the display. After a few months more and more macro remained in the display and my tang had a constant supply of food. I currently have gracillaria(sp) and brillo pad macros in my refugium and some turtle grass and caulpera in the culture tank. My culture tank maintains 0.0 nitrAtes. Display with refugium is around 20 ppm.
My recommendation is you get the plant life (macros or marine plants) established. I think you will find the ph will come up and the entire system will settle down and support many different fish. Your phosphates are what are feeding the cyano bacteria. As plant ife consumes the phosphates the cyano will be less of a problem.
 
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