Copper Question

[aanthony]

Ok, so i have a copper question, i was thinking about using one of my tanks and use it for quarantine, now ive heard, once you use a tank with copper, that means you cant keep any inverts, live rock, etc,etc. Now im planning to use this tank for a reef in a few years, if i take out all gravel, all water, wash it down, etc, will it be ok to use as a reef, would the copper seep into the glue?

i dont know, just wondering.

 

[tizzo]

It can and I wouldn't risk it.

 

[aanthony]

really, even if i washed it down, rinsed with a hose, soap and water, etc.

 

[ccampbell57]

That is an old wifes tale. I have done this many times in my display tank. You just have to make sure that you get a good skimmer, copper remover, and do a bunch of water changes prior to adding the inverts

 

[tizzo]

Well, maybe. but tanks are so cheap especially the small ones, still don't think i'd risk it.

 

[dinogeorge]

CCampbell57 is right.
Back in the “the day” the aquarium industry used a cheap grade of sealant. Anyone who added copper to a tank noticed that it turned that clear calk, blue. Therefore the assumption was that the blue color was actually copper that had seeped into the caulk and was forever trapped in it. But now the quality of the caulking compounds are resistant to pretty much any chemicals you can throw at it, including copper. So if your tank is more than 20 years old, I would tell you to be concerned.
But, Tizzo is giving you good advice because your gravel and anything else in that tank are a different story. You cannot ever remove all of the copper medication from your gravel. It may remain their “dormant” so to speak, until you have a drop in your PH, or sometimes even a rise in your temperatures. Then that copper can be released back into your tank. It’s sort of like a ticking bomb. If you can afford a new tank, then use your 30 gal as a QT. But if that is not an option right now, then I would say to absolutely throw away your sand/gravel and replace it with new. Don’t use any of the decorations that were in the tank either.
And if all of that is just not possible at this moment in time, then do a 100% water change, clean your gravel in salt water and scrub down everything as best you can. That tank will be fine for keeping fish, but it will be a risk if you put inverts in there. Don’t let me get your hopes up, but I have successfully used QT that had copper and converted them over to invert tanks without any problems. But I have been keeping, and studying, marine aquaria for more than 30 years and have experience that you might not have at this point. So telling you it worked for me does not mean it will work for you.
Good luck man.

 

[scsinet]

Glad to see someone here also see it's a myth.
If (and I really mean IF) it were to absorb any copper, any amount it would absorb is negligable and will not cause any inverts harm. Contarary to popular belief, inverts can tolerate trace amounts of copper, in the ppb range - nothing that would even register on an aquarium copper test kit.
I do agree with Tizzo though that if you are talking about 10 gallon tanks, they are like 10 bucks. If it gives you peace of mind, then don't reuse the tank for inverts.
Consider also running hypo in your quarantine tank rather than copper. Hypo is as reliable as copper - provided you have the equipment to administer it properly - and it doesn't have any of the risks. Inverts can't survive in hypo either, you don't need to worry about any lasting effects on decorations, etc.

 

[aanthony]

yeah, well i have my 90 gallon, and a have a 30 gallon qt, but i also have this 35 hex lying aroud, and i figure its a lot better looking, and i can just put it in the corner of my room, the gravel it will have is worthless, and wouldnt ever be used in a sw tank, does copper have an effect on freshwater fish? i just worry about these decorations that came out of a fw tank. i would basically dose this tank with copper once, and then judt have fish swim around in the copper water for 2 weeks, and then once the fish are ick free, they go into my 90.

 

[aanthony]

Originally Posted by SCSInet
you don't need to worry about any lasting effects on decorations, etc.
Nevermind i realized you answered my question

 

[srfisher17]

I'm sure its a myth also. I use copper more than most people and have even done some unscientific testing with cupramine and see no evidence of it. Even if there was some in the sealant, how much could there possibly be? I know how toxic copper is; but even salt mixes contain some.

 

[aanthony]

well i have a another copper question, can copper deplete over time, because basically what im thinking of doing is putting copper in the water and then just never touch that water again, the fish will swim around for 2 weeks, and then i put them in my 90, while the fish are out of the water, nitrites, nitrates, etc, will go down, therefore no real need for water changes. and if theres no reason for water changes then i wont have to replace the copper. can this be done????

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by AAnthony
well i have a another copper question, can copper deplete over time, because basically what im thinking of doing is putting copper in the water and then just never touch that water again, the fish will swim around for 2 weeks, and then i put them in my 90, while the fish are out of the water, nitrites, nitrates, etc, will go down, therefore no real need for water changes. and if theres no reason for water changes then i wont have to replace the copper. can this be done????

I'm not sure I follow you, I'm slow. I use Sea-chem cupramine copper in my QT. Then I use Sea chem cuprasorb to remove it. I also use a Sea chem test kit. I wouldn't worry if it depletes over time or not. The copper and cupramine are cheap and the cupramine can be recharged. No science behind it; but I wouldn't want to put a fish directly from shipping box into a full dose of copper. I do this often, ich spots or not, depending on the fish. I'm not telling anyone to do this; but it works very well for me.

 

[ophiura]

Originally Posted by AAnthony
well i have a another copper question, can copper deplete over time, because basically what im thinking of doing is putting copper in the water and then just never touch that water again, the fish will swim around for 2 weeks, and then i put them in my 90, while the fish are out of the water, nitrites, nitrates, etc, will go down, therefore no real need for water changes. and if theres no reason for water changes then i wont have to replace the copper. can this be done????

Copper does need to be maintained at particular effective levels, yes.
I am not sure why you would think there is no need for water changes.

 

[dinogeorge]

Ophiura is right, you SHOULD do a water change, even if you are using copper. You simply remove the amount of water you wish, and replace it with new. Then you add the necessary copper for the particular amount of water that you removed.
Let's say that your copper calls for a teaspoon per 10 gallons. If you removed 5 gallons of water, then you would add a half teaspoon of copper when you add your new five gallons of water. But you must, must test all the time. Never add more copper until you have checked your water. Most copper products begin to dilute after a while, so even if you decided not to change any water, you will still need to test for copper.

 

[aanthony]

alright, well i figured no need for water changes because the fish will only be in there for 2 weeks. and its only a qt tank.

 

[scsinet]

Originally Posted by ophiura
Copper does need to be maintained at particular effective levels, yes.
I am not sure why you would think there is no need for water changes.
Also keep in mind that copper is easier to maintain at treatment levels when you don't have porus things in the tank like substrate, rock, certain decor, etc absorbing it out of the water column.
Of course, running a tank with no substrate (I.E. aragonite or CC) and no rock means no buffering of the water, which can cause wild pH swings. So it's really kind of a catch-22. You really need to be on the ball to use enough copper to kill the bug, but not so much as to kill the fish, and keep all of your other parameters in check.

 

[ophiura]

Originally Posted by AAnthony
alright, well i figured no need for water changes because the fish will only be in there for 2 weeks. and its only a qt tank.

Are you planning on taking this tank down each time? Because it needs to be established and cycle, like any other tank...there is no real difference simply because it is a QT.
BTW, I also do recommend a good copper test kit if you intend to use this as a treatment.

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by ophiura
Are you planning on taking this tank down each time? Because it needs to be established and cycle, like any other tank...there is no real difference simply because it is a QT.
BTW, I also do recommend a good copper test kit if you intend to use this as a treatment.

I strongly suggest a copper test kit made by the same guys that make the copper. I've found some tests very hard to read. SeaChem cupramine (copper) and their test kit were both recommended to me on this site; they are the best I've ever used. Until I'm at the point where I don't expect to be getting any new fish (yeah, like that day's ever going to come); I keep my QT running and "ghost feed " once in a while; just to keep the bacteria on their toes.