copper questions

[cjrose]

I am treating one of my qt tanks with cupramine. My question is, does it evaporate as the water evaporates? I have noticed that the copper levels aren't staying consistent from day to day. I know that when I do water changes I have to add copper to the water that I'm putting in but do I also have to add more copper to the tank on occasion to keep the levels at .50ppm?
My blue tang, blenny and clowns have been in copper almost 2 weeks now. The copper levels dipped below .50ppm and I noticed today that my tang is scratching again. He hasn't done this in 3 weeks. There are no visible signs of ick on any of the fish, but I know that it can be in their gills.
Thanks!

 

[beth]

Copper doesn't evaporate. Only water does.
You have the toughest time with ich treatment!

 

[geoj]

Algae can take up cupramine. Go to the manufactures www it has loads of good info…

 

[cjrose]

You got that right Beth! I lost 2 fish in the 1st week of copper treatment. My yellow tang bit the dust the 2nd day and my watchman goby a week later. I think my blenny went after the goby. Anyway, on the bright side my blue tang that had hole in the head looks amazing. He's got no pitting at all. I continue to feed food soaked in zoecom and offer algae sheets everyday. Everyone in the qt is eating well and acting normally.

 

[btldreef]

Are you running a skimmer? I use a skimmer on my QT when I have numerous fish in it and have noticed that the skimmer sucks out a lot of the cupramine.
Also, as GeoJ stated, algae is a big consumer if copper.
Glad to hear your fish are getting better, you've had a tough go with them lately.

 

[cjrose]

No I am not running a skimmer. There are some pvc pipes, gravel, power head and airstone in the tank as well as the hang on back filter. Params are 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 5 nitrates, and 8.0 for ph. Copper is .50 There is a little bit of algae in the tank. I'm testing copper 2x a day now which seems to be helping me keep things in check.
So here's another question for you guys. My husband wants me to copper all fish in QT. I want to hypo them 1st. I figure just because I had a hypo resistant strain of ick doesn't mean that's going to happen again. I am looking to get a flame angel and/or coral beauty angel, and a yellow tang eventually. Is it true that flame angels or angels don't tolerate copper well?

 

[florida joe]

Carmen in the old days we did not treat angles with copper but i do believe cupramine is safe to use with angles
FYI I don't care what anyone tells you 99.9 percent of lfs run copper
I had a hypo resistant strain of ick
then you did not have ick IMO

 

[cjrose]

I didn't get my tangs and blenny from a lfs. I got them from an online place here in LA. My RG and goby are from my lfs. I've had them about a week...in a different qt of course and so far they seem ok. I am doing hypo with them though.
I have been fighting ick with my tang since last fall. I did 2 separate hypo treatments the 1st lasting 7 or 8 weeks I believe but it didn't kill it. Yes I have a refractometer that's properly calibrated. When it came back the 3rd time, 2 weeks after the 2nd hypo treatment, I posted these pics and was told it was ick. https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/vb/s...something-else

 

[beth]

Its ich.

 

[florida joe]

IMO we can never say with out looking at the parasite under a microscope that it is positively ick. While a good indication with out microscopic identification is if we hypo and we brake the life cycle. In your case IMO there can only be two scenarios one that it was not ick. Two, the hypo was not preformed correctly. FWI I have been searching for longer then i can remember for any proof positive information that there is in fact a hypo resistant form of ick. If anyone has access to such info please post it

 

[beth]

Hypo did seem to be performed right by reviewing the procedures described; I certainly can't completely verify that via forum communications. Nothing is completely verifiable by posting and reviewing info on a forum. But from the info given to me, I verified that the problem is ich by looking at pics, and the hypo done did seem to be done correctly as described.
Hypo failed for whatever reason, and now cj is going for the next best treatment--cupramine. This copper is well tolerated when done correctly and should be effective. Maintaining therapeutic dose levels is critical.

 

[cjrose]

Thanks Beth. I really didn't want to do copper but it's not a difficult process. I figured out today that my levels were low because I only put in 1/2 a dose when I did my water change. But I look at it this way, I would rather under dose and figure it out a day later than overdose and lose my fish. My fish have to stay in qt for 6 weeks anyway because I added more inverts to my fishless DT.
As for hypo, I am confident that I performed it correctly. I did a lot of research and asked a lot of questions. The information on these boards, both in sticky posts and one on one messages, is incredibly helpful. I can't tell you how many times I have re-read your disease/treatment posts just to make sure I am doing things right.
BTW my blue tang looks to be completely recovered from hlle. I could not have treated him w/o all your great information!
Thanks a Bunch!

 

[cranberry]

Florida... I may have some data for you soon. My lion had ich... visually confirmed. Hypo'd. But I think I may see a reappearance in the future. I can't identify what's up yet... but I'm rarely wrong about such things.

 

[beth]

Well, then, let throw a happy event into the conversation. Can you post a pic of the healed up blue tang?

 

[cranberry]

Have you coppered lions Beth?
Oops sorry... happy pics.

 

[cjrose]

I will try and get a pic of him but doubt I can get a good one till I take him out and put him back in the DT. Will most definitely post a pic him. I'll even post a pic of all my "little ones."

 

[beth]

I've never had a lion. However, I have certainly seen others use copper on lions. Copper is a potent medication and will have its effect on fish. That is why I have been advocating for the use of hyposalinity at SWF for 10 years. Zero ill-effects on fish, as opposed to the potential of significant side effects using copper.

 

[cranberry]

Ya, I've only ever hypo'd. I've never needed to do anything else.

 

[geoj]

Originally Posted by Beth
http:///forum/post/3256202
I've never had a lion. However, I have certainly seen others use copper on lions. Copper is a potent medication and will have its effect on fish. That is why I have been advocating for the use of hyposalinity at SWF for 10 years. Zero ill-effects on fish, as opposed to the potential of significant side effects using copper.
Please provide source info for its effect on fish, for my own curiosity.
Yes copper is toxic, and that is why it kills Ich.
And Beth you are right that fish can tolerate hyposalinity better than copper. But you have to be one of those people that have the time and energy to do hypo right, so not to kill the fish.
And that isn’t me
You guys are better than I…

 

[florida joe]

First to Carmen. Do not take my posts personally. Hypo as well as copper have to be administered to the letter and there are many instances where the hobbyist was unknowingly off in their treatment procedure.
To Renee when you say you identified the ick parasite visually do you mean with the

[hr]
eye or under a microscope?