Copper?

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evilfishtank

Guest
So i found a 30gal tank with great lighting, stand, filter, the works. The lady said she used it as her quarantine tank and it had some copper in it..but months ago her friend wanted the tank so she drained it and her friend canceled so it has sat up dry for a few months now..
so how does copper usually get introduced to the tank? medications? i have heard you cannot ever really get rid of it.
if that is true is the tank useless to me? how bad is copper for a tank. thanks in advance.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
For fish only...no problem.
Corals can't take any copper. The copper actually gets absorbed by the rubber silicone that holds the tank together and steadily poisons any corals you put in the tank, it won't matter how long you leave it empty or soak it.
For coral this tank is usless to you. If you keep fish only or use it for a hospital tank you are good to go.
 
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evilfishtank

Guest
so i can do fish with live rock .. but most likely wont have any coraline bacteria . and it cannot share anything between the two? like some chaeto algae or something?
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by evilfishtank
http:///forum/post/3045940
so i can do fish with live rock .. but most likely wont have any coraline bacteria . and it cannot share anything between the two? like some chaeto algae or something?
My knowledge is limited how the live rock, inverts or algae would be affected by copper. I only know that coral can't take it, and fish can.
 
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evilfishtank

Guest
i appreciate it. i kind of wanted a place to swap coral between anyway so i think i will pass on the deal.
 
srfisher17

srfisher17

Active Member
Silicone will not trap any harmful amount of copper; this is an old myth, IMO. I've used copper in my QT on almost every fish for many years. My present QT has been dosed with copper more times than I can count; after the copper is removed with Cuprisorb (or carbon), tests will always shoe "0" copper. I have also QT'd many corals and other inverts, without copper, in the same tank with no problem. Almost all shippers, wholesalers, online dealers and many retailers use copper all the time. If silicone held it, their tanks would be loaded. Rinse a tank well and copper shouldn't be any concern at all. However, rock, substrate, etc can hold copper. I'll bet this myth started because methylene blue can stain silicone. Staining and absorbing are two different things.
 
slider101

slider101

Member
If it was a concern for you, with it being a smaller 30 gal you could take a razor blade and cleanly slice and remove the silicone from all seams and go back with aquarium safe silicone and reseal. But I'm with Srfisher, silicon should not absorb anything, nothing will stick to it like paint or anything so you should be ok.
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by srfisher17
http:///forum/post/3046415
Silicone will not trap any harmful amount of copper; this is an old myth, IMO. I've used copper in my QT on almost every fish for many years. My present QT has been dosed with copper more times than I can count; after the copper is removed with Cuprisorb (or carbon), tests will always shoe "0" copper. I have also QT'd many corals and other inverts, without copper, in the same tank with no problem. Almost all shippers, wholesalers, online dealers and many retailers use copper all the time. If silicone held it, their tanks would be loaded. Rinse a tank well and copper shouldn't be any concern at all. However, rock, substrate, etc can hold copper. I'll bet this myth started because methylene blue can stain silicone. Staining and absorbing are two different things.
Actually my friend silicone has been documented to absorb copper BUT the amount is so small that it has never been detrimental to corals or inverts. ( as confirmed to me by seachem) As far as one poster saying you never get rid of it, if it is leaching out of you silicone it will eventually dissipate. For those worried just use a poly filter pad incorporated into your system But again from all I have read the amount of absorption (quickly) is so minimal and leaching out (over years) is extremely minimal
 
srfisher17

srfisher17

Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3046652
Actually my friend silicone has been documented to absorb copper BUT the amount is so small that it has never been detrimental to corals or inverts. ( as confirmed to me by seachem) As far as one poster saying you never get rid of it, if it is leaching out of you silicone it will eventually dissipate. For those worried just use a poly filter pad incorporated into your system But again from all I have read the amount of absorption (quickly) is so minimal and leaching out (over years) is extremely minimal
Joe, I imagine anything can leave a minuscule amount of itself behind. (Like I always seem to leave a few brain cells behind.) But like you said, minimal. However, I do remember an article by Bob Goemans that said copper in silicone couldn't even be measured I'll try to find it. In any case; its sure nothing to be concerned about. After all, most (if not all) salt mixes have a little copper. BTW; I really like SeaChem's tech support and if they told you this---it works for me!
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Yes seachem has a very friendly and knowledgeable tech support team. I made a friend there a long time ago when I was having trouble with their copper test kits and she admitted that there was a problem and they were working on it but there were still a lot of faulty kits in stores.
BTW Copper concentration in the ocean is 0.254 ppb (Pilson 1998). Copper is toxic to invertebrates, especially mollusks, at concentrations as low as 2-3 ppb.
 
deejeff442

deejeff442

Active Member
also any silicon if fine just like pvc cement .once cured it becomes inert.
i alway like to reseal all used tanks i buy just because i dont trust it from leaking.
very easy to razor it out and resilicon it.
 
srfisher17

srfisher17

Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3046892
Yes seachem has a very friendly and knowledgeable tech support team. I made a friend there a long time ago when I was having trouble with their copper test kits and she admitted that there was a problem and they were working on it but there were still a lot of faulty kits in stores.
BTW Copper concentration in the ocean is 0.254 ppb (Pilson 1998). Copper is toxic to invertebrates, especially mollusks, at concentrations as low as 2-3 ppb.
I remember that problem with the copper test (May, 2007 I think), bad batch of the powder reagent. I had fish in QT at the time and I always use copper and a de-wormer on fish in QT--SeaChem FedEx overnighted new reagent, great folks. BTW, I've got someone in a University lab testing my QT water for any copper now. I think you know, Joe, that I've set up 4 tanks (240, 240 reef, 180 & 55) since Katrina All my fish (LOTS) and inverts have gone through the same QT tank (a cheap 55 gal), I can't even guess how much copper it has seen. My tests still show no copper, but I'm getting an exact reading just out of curiosity. I'll let you know the results.
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by srfisher17
http:///forum/post/3046973
I remember that problem with the copper test (May, 2007 I think), bad batch of the powder reagent. I had fish in QT at the time and I always use copper and a de-wormer on fish in QT--SeaChem FedEx overnighted new reagent, great folks. BTW, I've got someone in a University lab testing my QT water for any copper now. I think you know, Joe, that I've set up 4 tanks (240, 240 reef, 180 & 55) since Katrina All my fish (LOTS) and inverts have gone through the same QT tank (a cheap 55 gal), I can't even guess how much copper it has seen. My tests still show no copper, but I'm getting an exact reading just out of curiosity. I'll let you know the results.
Great I think people have to realize that testing for copper leaching out of silicone into water is in the PPB not PPM range so our average copper test kits can not even detect copper at such low levels
 
srfisher17

srfisher17

Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3046989
Great I think people have to realize that testing for copper leaching out of silicone into water is in the PPB not PPM range so our average copper test kits can not even detect copper at such low levels
I don't think copper leaching from silicone is any concern at all; but I'll let you know what the testing says. I've QTd all the coral for my new 240 reef in a tank that has been dosed with copper dozens of times; with no apparent problem. If SeaChem says it isn't a problem, (IMO & IME) then it isn't. You sure keep us all on out toes, my friend!
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by deejeff442
http:///forum/post/3046915
also any silicon if fine just like pvc cement .once cured it becomes inert.
i alway like to reseal all used tanks i buy just because i dont trust it from leaking.
very easy to razor it out and resilicon it.
I have a concern...question really...I know silicon will not stick to itself. Isn't it a danger to razor it off and try to just reapply it on top of an old seal? It sound like it would weaken the tank seal, and do greater damage than the leaking copper
.
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3047167
I have a concern...question really...I know silicon will not stick to itself. Isn't it a danger to razor it off and try to just reapply it on top of an old seal? It sound like it would weaken the tank seal, and do greater damage than the leaking copper
.
please seach out my thread on re-sealing a tank
 
srfisher17

srfisher17

Active Member
Originally Posted by Flower
http:///forum/post/3047177
Too much info to search, I got lost...can't you just toss out a hint if it is okay or a danger?

Joe is a very complex man; he doesn't believe in the easy way.
But, I shouldn't speak for him....sorry Joe.
 
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