Could this be possible??

fishyfun2

fishyfun2

Member
Hi,
Short introduction here. 29 gallon FOWLR tank, set up 1 week ago with LS from the bag, 20 lbs. base rock, another 19-20 lbs partially cured LR (No life seen on it besides some light green algae) and most recently added (2 days ago) another fully cured small LR with hitchhikers. I started the cycle last Thursday with a raw shrimp, took him out after 2 days, when ammonia was 0.25ppm, nitrates were 1.0 and nitrates were at 10 ppm. Did a 5 gal water change (spec gravity was low at 1.021) to bring up SG a little at a time. Did another 5 gallon change out 2 days ago. Those readings were the highest i've gotten all week.
Here are my readings today:
Spec Gravity = 1.022-1.023
pH = 8.2
Amm = 0
Nitrites = 0
Nitrates = so very hard for me to tell, somewhere btw 0-10 ppm. I hate doing this one, the stupid 5 & 10ppm look the same to me.
I can't possibly be cycled this early, can I? HELP!!!!!!!!! Tell me what to do...
 
stanlalee

stanlalee

Active Member
yes its very possible (and likely if you have 10ppm nitrates, zero ammonia and nitrites). a) you need a test kit that you can distinquish if you have nitrates or not b) if you truly started with "partially cured" rock that means its still producing ammonia and there really was no reason to add the dead shrimp. IF it was a week or less away from curing and you added cured rock(or not) then there is no reason you couldn't have completed the cycle. most of the bacteria colonizing probably took place before you even got the rock since it was already "partially cured". c) I could be DEAD wrong because you keep doing water changes. you may just be masking the presence of ammonia by diluting it twice a week with water changes so I'd wait at least 4 or 5 days longer without doing water changes. if you still have zero ammonia, nitrites and readable nitrates considered yourself cycled.
 
locoyo386

locoyo386

Member
Hi there,
Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/2914161
IMO did not leave the shrimp in long enough. I do not think you are fully cycled yet.
I have to disagree I believe he is fully cycled. He had ammonia present and now there is none. He had nitrites present and now there are none. He has a very little amount of nitrates, thus he has completed a the nitrogen cycle.
However I do believe he did not allow enugh bacteria growth to be able to suppoort fish at this time.
 
fishyfun2

fishyfun2

Member
So maybe i completed a mini-cycle? I was hoping to preserve the life on my rock, i have like 4 little brittlestars on there. Would it be an OK idea to ghost feed for awhile and see what happens with my results?
 
fishyfun2

fishyfun2

Member
Oh, i forgot. Also taking your advice and going to go down to LFS today and have the water tested by them. I'll post results when i get back. THANKS!
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Figure out what your water parameters are are yet?
I think you went through a mini-cycle.
Ghost feed a little for the time being and wait another week, I would suggest. Just feed as much as you would one small fish.
 
locoyo386

locoyo386

Member
Hi there
I do believe you did the right thing by not letting your amonia get to high. Thid gives a better chance for the living things to stay alive.
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33
http:///forum/post/2914437
Figure out what your water parameters are are yet?
I think you went through a mini-cycle.
Ghost feed a little for the time being and wait another week, I would suggest. Just feed as much as you would one small fish.
I agree with the above comment. Continue to ghost feed as if you did have a fish. If the ammonia do not really show, than maybe you do have enough bacteria sutable for livestock. It depends on how much ammonia will be present by ghost feeding in comparison to what amount would be present with livestock.
 
brian_wis

brian_wis

Member
Originally Posted by Stanlalee
http:///forum/post/2914184
yes its very possible (and likely if you have 10ppm nitrates, zero ammonia and nitrites). a) you need a test kit that you can distinquish if you have nitrates or not b) if you truly started with "partially cured" rock that means its still producing ammonia and there really was no reason to add the dead shrimp. IF it was a week or less away from curing and you added cured rock(or not) then there is no reason you couldn't have completed the cycle. most of the bacteria colonizing probably took place before you even got the rock since it was already "partially cured". c) I could be DEAD wrong because you keep doing water changes. you may just be masking the presence of ammonia by diluting it twice a week with water changes so I'd wait at least 4 or 5 days longer without doing water changes. if you still have zero ammonia, nitrites and readable nitrates considered yourself cycled.
I agree with Stanlalee although id give it 7 days just to be safe....
 
fishyfun2

fishyfun2

Member
Went to LFS. They are using the same test kit as i am. Same parameters as above. He said no trites, no amm, minimal nitrates. I think i've p*#ssed them off! He is telling me there is NO WAY to cycle correctly without having a damsel in there. I told him i thought it was cruel and didn't want to have to take apart my tank to catch them again. And, i told him that i didn't want to put any fish in there that i haven't quarantined properly. He tried to tell me that after i take them out, anything that would've come in on the damsels would die after 2-3 days without a host. He also told me ghost feeding would introduce a lot of phosphates into my tank. I bought some food and left the store.

Can't believe it's such a big deal that i don't want to buy $12 worth of damsels from them. I tell ya, it doesn't make me want to buy fish from them in the future though!
So, I'll go ahead with the ghost feeding. Still wanting to keep my brittlestars alive, so at what point should i do water changes? I was doing them at 0.25ppm ammonia. Is that too low? Is this cycle-defeating? I was thinking that would still be Ok, as long as i keep feeding and providing that ammonia source right?
 
locoyo386

locoyo386

Member
Hi there,
Originally Posted by FishyFun2
http:///forum/post/2914543
Went to LFS. They are using the same test kit as i am. Same parameters as above. He said no trites, no amm, minimal nitrates. I think i've p*#ssed them off! He is telling me there is NO WAY to cycle correctly without having a damsel in there (I would disagree completely here, as long as you have ammonia hydroxide you will cycle). I told him i thought it was cruel and didn't want to have to take apart my tank to catch them again. And, i told him that i didn't want to put any fish in there that i haven't quarantined properly (highly recomended). He tried to tell me that after i take them out, anything that would've come in on the damsels (not sure of everything that could come on damsels) would die after 2-3 days without a host (I think 2-3 days is too short period of time for this to be completely true). He also told me ghost feeding would introduce a lot of phosphates (not sure about this, but ight be possible) into my tank. I bought some food and left the store.

Can't believe it's such a big deal that i don't want to buy $12 worth of damsels from them. I tell ya, it doesn't make me want to buy fish from them in the future though!
So, I'll go ahead with the ghost feeding. Still wanting to keep my brittlestars alive, so at what point should i do water changes? (do not have to do water changes unless you have ammonia present over .25 ppm. If you never see ammonia rise, I think your bacteria are responding great.) I was doing them at 0.25ppm ammonia. Is that too low? (not complete sure about this, but I do know that high ammonia levels can be really bad for living organism. I would recomend this level untill I learn otherwise about this subject.) Is this cycle-defeating? (not sure what you mean, but if you mean that by having a low ammonia level that your tank will not cycle, than this is wrong as long as there is ammonia present the tank will cycle.) I was thinking that would still be Ok, as long as i keep feeding and providing that ammonia source right? (if I understood correctly in that your ammonia & nitrite levesl tested are zero, than you are not trying to introduce ammonia into your tank to cycle. You are trying to see if your biofiltration is able to convert ammonia & nitrites fast enough so that when you test it reads zero.)

I am not sure what type of fish or CUC you are going to add. Once you notice that your ammonia & nitrite levels are not accumulating than you should be fine in adding livestock, just add them in small quantities and slowly. Test your water when you do add livestock, this will give you a good sence an how many and how fast you could add them (depends on biofiltration).
 
stanlalee

stanlalee

Active Member
I'd just go ahead with the first fish or clean up crew at this point rather than ghost feed. get something cheap, hardy and peaceful. if worse comes to worse have some prime or ammonia neutralizer present but I just think your over the hump just move slowly.
 
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