CPR overflows?

[zeppelin]

Hey, hows it going? I'm pretty new here. I have a 125 High Acrylic that I am just setting up. Have had Salt fish before, but its been about 10 years ago. I'm currently running an undergravel under 3-4" of crushed coral with a sand bottom over that. I'm also running an external power filter that I used with the setup when it was freshwater temporarily until I get my sump system built. I'm looking at a CPR OVERFLOW BOX REEF CS 150 for the overflow to the sump. The problem I have is that the Acrylic tank has a top with holes in it and the slots for an external filter are only about 1 1/2 -2 inches wide so the part that goes in the tank is limited to that width. The design will suit my needs nicely, as long as it works well. Is this a good unit? Whats a good used price?
Thanks for any input.
Larry

 

[jester]

Hey Larry, welcome to the gang.
Well first, you really should ditch the undergravel and CC. Do a search here on DSB. If you still have some questions about converting and the benifits, just ask. You shoud consider it now before your tank is stocked. Technology and methods have changed greatly in ten years.
Now for your question. I just picked up a cs102 myself.
They will work great if you hook up a powerhead to the top of the unit. You need a powerhead so it sucks the air bubble build up in the cyphon "C". This way when the power goes out, you are gaurenteed to have suction again.
Is this the one on ----? I looked at it the other night . I'm thinking about bidding on it myself. I need another overflow box. Sorry, but I can't tell you what I think a fair price is yet. 3 hours, 22 min left.
Good luck.
PS, if it is the one on ----, his descriotion is wrong for a cs 150. It flows 1600GPH and has a 1 1/2 bulkhead.

 

[richard rendos]

If it is an acrylic tank, why don't you just drill it? That way you don't have that ugly overflow box inside the tank. Acrylic can be drilled with a wood hole cutting drill bit. Then all you will need is a couple of bulkhead fittings and some PVC. I think you would be much happier in the long run. If the tank is already full, just drain some of the water out and drill out the back of the tank. Depending on what size bulkheads you use would determine what size hole you would need to drill. A 1 1/2" bulkhead needs a 2 3/8" hole, a 2" bulkhead needs a 3" hole, and 1" bulkheads need a 1 3/4" hole. If you consider this route and have any other questions, please post back and I will try to answer your questions.

 

[zeppelin]

Originally posted by Richard Rendos
If it is an acrylic tank, why don't you just drill it? That way you don't have that ugly overflow box inside the tank. Acrylic can be drilled with a wood hole cutting drill bit. Then all you will need is a couple of bulkhead fittings and some PVC. I think you would be much happier in the long run. If the tank is already full, just drain some of the water out and drill out the back of the tank. Depending on what size bulkheads you use would determine what size hole you would need to drill. A 1 1/2" bulkhead needs a 2 3/8" hole, a 2" bulkhead needs a 3" hole, and 1" bulkheads need a 1 3/4" hole. If you consider this route and have any other questions, please post back and I will try to answer your questions.
Definitely, more info please. The reason I haven't drilled the tank is that I switch from Fresh to Salt periodically in it. Don't think I'll be taking it down again though in the near future. Can I then just run the 1" hose right to a trickle filter and sump? The one issue I think I would have drilling the tank is that the canopy only extends down about 1/2". I think the water level would be below the canopy lip and show.
As far as the crushed coral bottom, I'd really hate to waste all that coral. Would mixing it with a sand base be better? I currently have about 2" of live sand over the crushed coral, except where the rock is. All exposed bottom has a sand layer over the coral. I really just was going to use the undergravel as a water mover, with the two powerheads I have running it. Better just to pull the downtubes and not use it at all??
I really want to get this, along with my sump and lighting systems down before I go any further.
Thanks
Larry

 

[jester]

better to pull it out all together
there is nothing under it but a nitrate factory. Nitrates bad. Well, in high levels anyway and you are sure to have REALLY high levels if you keep it. Just keep the power heads for circulation. Some people keep thier CC, and are very happy with it. Others change it out following a few easy steps, and can't believe they ever had it in there to start with. I am one of those people. Drilling can be a good idea, if it suits your needs. I have a tempered glass tank, so I'm stuck with the overflow thing.
If you decied to drill it, (it's not that hard) and decied to go to freshwater later, just make your 90 deg bend out of the side a short threaded piece so you can disconnect the sump and screw a cap on it.

 

[zeppelin]

A limestone base sand is best from what I've read in threads so far, right?? Got a line on some. Picking it up tomorrow. Pull out all the crushed coral huh? Damn! Well, I want the tank to last a LONG while, so I guess I better get at it tomorrow. Nothing but base rock in it now anyways so now is the time to do it. Probably will drill the tank. Bulk heads, PVC pipe and a screen huh? Got any links to picks of the bulk head installation process? Thanks for the help.
Larry

 

[jester]

Actually, agronite sand is ideal. Do a search on southdown. This is what most of the big dogs play with. It's really hard to get a hold of though. There's a member here who shipped it to me because I couldn't find it. His name is Chris L. I'll see if I can find a few pics for what you might need.

 

[zeppelin]

Well, I got most of the crushed coral out this a.m., pulled the undergravel filter. What a mess!! The tank has been freshwater for about a year and there was ALLOT of well.......you know....under the filter halves. I'm letting the tank settle now and then going to suck all the crap off the bottom. QUESTION?? Will the bacteria that was under the UG live in saltwater also or will it all die? I plan on keeping a bit of the crushed coral still in the tank, since it is seasoned, along with the live sand I introduced a few days ago, and mix it with the other sand. I am currently trying to hunt down some Southdown. All I've found so far is Quickcrete. Is it an acceptable substitute?
Larry

 

[jester]

Uhmmm, how are you converting to saltwater?
You did drain the tank and clean it out right?

 

[zeppelin]

Yep. I have done it this way about 6 times now, switching from freshwater to saltwater and back. Drain the water while stirring up the crushed coral, move the coral to the edges and drain the middle so all or most of the ditreous(sp) is removed. Clean the walls, and fill the tank back up and add the salt solution. Each time prior, this really cut down the cycling time as the coral already had a bacteria growth going. At least that is what I assumed. The previous times I was able to add fish slowly after about a week. Never needed the 6 week cycling time. Never lost one fish, and I've had Anthius(sp) and a saltwater Betta do VERY well. Want to have a Betta in the reef tank if I can. THats my favorite, that and the Pinnatis Bat. Dont think the batfish will make the tank but I might try it once the tank is established and if It looks like I will have the room.
I've now removed the rest of the crushed coral, sifting it so the live sand remains in the tank. Heading out to pick up the sand (only able to find Quickrete) and will be putting that in soon. Probably pick up the bulkheads and PVC while I'm there, if they have it. Glad I dont have any plans, besides watching the Buckeyes this afternoon. Then a MAJOR filtering job to clear the tank back up. What a PITA this is becoming. Want to do it real nice this time as I plan on adding allot of inverts.
Ordered my fans Friday for the hood. 3" 12V fans for $1.59 each at www.mcmelectronics.com What a deal! Anyone got a part number for the compact flourescent sockets, and who they are by? Where is a cheap online source for the compact flourescents? What brands do you guys recommend? What percentage of Actinic is best? How much light do you think I will need for the 125? Are MH lights a must?? Thanks for all the help so far.
Larry

 

[jester]

Want to do it real nice this time
MH lights are really only a must for coral. And they really make the tank look like an ocean. AS far as the quickcreat, I've read that other here use it and have no problems. NO, PC sockets I really can't help you with sorry. I spent $400 on 3 175w 10k MH's, 2 40w antic vho, reflector, hood and all ballasts. ----. Might want to check it out. they have all sorts of lighting soultiouns up there.
Well, good luck.

 

[zeppelin]

Thanks for all the help Jester!! Sand is in and now its a cloudy MESS. Power filter is running so I guess its break time. Just cracked a Bacardi Silver.
Probably start calling around for 1 1/2" bulkhead fittings later.
Found an old acrylic octagon display with shelves I had and am going to convert it to a trickle filter. Any idea what size holes I need to drill in the shelves to get a good trickle going?
Larry

 

[jester]

I would start with 1/4 in and go up from there.
I'm on my way to HD now to get some PVC and spa tube for my overflows.
Do you have an RO/DI?

 

[zeppelin]

Originally posted by Jester
I would start with 1/4 in and go up from there.
I'm on my way to HD now to get some PVC and spa tube for my overflows.
Do you have an RO/DI?

Not familiar with all the abbreviations yet............... but I'm pretty sure I probably don't have one anyways.
Why only start with 1/4" Do I need to get the system up and see what the flow is? It shouldn't allow the tank to get higher as the sump pumps back into the tank, but should still keep the water level as high as possible, right? You said overflows, with as "s", how many overflows should I have? Two, one for the trickle and another going directly to the sump?
Good news is that I found ONE bag of southdown locally. Fellow enthusiast has a bag he is giving me for $5. I'll top off the 3 bags of quickrete with it.
Larry

 

[richard rendos]

If you drill it you can then just attach the hoses to the bulkheads straight to the sump. If you think the water level will be too low, you can always attach 90 degree elbows on the inside of the tank to raise the water level.

 

[zeppelin]

Originally posted by Richard Rendos
If you drill it you can then just attach the hoses to the bulkheads straight to the sump. If you think the water level will be too low, you can always attach 90 degree elbows on the inside of the tank to raise the water level.
Ya, thats what I thought. Thanks. I'm going to go ahead and drill the tank. I guess the size of the bulkhead will depend on how much pump you have returning the water, right? Been checking out Broomer's setup.
Is an RO/DI unit necessary? How about the refugium? I'm planning on a nice sized trickle filter if it works out.
Larry

 

[jester]

Actually, the size of the bulkhead only depends on how much potential flow you want. Your overflow (in your case drilled overflow)will only drain the amount of water pumped in. If you don't pump water in, it will drain to the lowest point of the bulkhead and then stop. Pour a glass of water in it, a glass of water will drain out. Are you with me on this? Same as with a pump. As long as overflow can handle the volume the pump is filling the tank at, you will be ok. Make sense?
RO/DI 's are very important. I don't have water in my 160 yet because I don't have one yet. I have lost many fish and inverts due to tap water (even filtered with a PUR filter). I can't even imagine what I would have lost if I kept corals. So, this time I'm doing it the right way from the start.
As for the refugium, not really a necessity of the start.
Got a good Skimmer? If not, get one of those first.

 

[zeppelin]

Water's already in the tank. Can I use the RO/DI unit to filter water that is already in the tank? Would you just plumb it into the sump hoses?
Larry

 

[broomer5]

Hi Larry,
The RO or RO/DI unit is to purify tapwater only. It connects to your homes freshwater piping or faucet - so no you can't use it on the saltwater already in the tank.
You CAN use RO or RO/DI water for all evaporated top offs, and on ALL new waterchange water. This is the next best thing.
I haven't seen any mention on what return pump you plan to use ?
What type of water flow are you looking to push through the 125 high ?
This will be a key factor when selecting the overflow hole diameter and bulkhead/drain.
You may get by with one larger one- but dual overflows are nice to have as well.
Again - it all comes down the the PUMP, and how much turnover you want in your tank/sump/system.
You could run one overflow to the octagon DIY trickle filter, and the other to the sump. Pretty common practice. Size of holes again comes back to the "what size return pump" you plan to use.
Starting to see the pattern ?
What pump are you going to use ?
Oh yeah - good move removing the UGF and drilling the acrylic tank.
Jester steered you clear of future problems for sure. It's a messy job - but you will not regret it. Richard's suggestion saved you a ton a money - and you'll have a much nicer overflow set up.
Sounds like you're getting some good advise here

 

[zeppelin]

I'm doing a 1" overflow on each end of the tank. Still thinking about whether or not I'm going to do the trickle filter. I've seen allot of setups in the last couple days that just use a DSB, Live Rock, and a skimmer. Some use a refugium also. Have seen a few with a trickle system also, but not too many. With the two 1" overflows, what size pump do you guys recommend? I definitely want to move a decent amount of water. The more current, the better, right?
I really want to go with two pumps so I can incorporate a spray bar that comes on with a timer periodically. I am running the lines from the tank through the wall behind, and into rubbermaids recessed into the countertop in my utility room. It will be about a 1-1 1/2 foot travel downhill for the water. That way my sump and refugium are at a comfortable height for me, will allow the overflows to work well, and not tax the pump pushing water uphill too far before entering the tank. This should also cut down on the size pump I will need since the pump wont be pushing the water uphill too far. It was ALLOT easier than I thought getting my wife to OK cutting the holes in the countertop to sink the rubbermaids in. Nice having her as excited as me to get this project on the right track.
Larry