Crashed & Water changes won't bring ammonia down???

[lillibirdy]

My 4 month old 55g crashed...Was in hypo for ich, I had just done a 25 percent water change to remove Pima fix, to help fish with ich), but I am pretty sure it was mainly because I OVER FED... aaaaaaarg. BUT, I ALSO added a fish, changed salt (from Coralife to Kent) and began using buffer (LFS insisted) bout that same time. I told him it was stable at 7.9 and that I had heard here that altho it was low, that stable was more important than messing with buffer and having it go up and down...he and another customer made me feel stupid, so I added tsp of baking soda for several days, then buffer. (which put alk waaaaaaaay high, calcium 480, PH 8.2) I probably shouldn't have done either of those things as it was in hypo for ich, tooooo many changes......anyway lost several fish. Pleeease don't kick me, doing a fine job of that myself, I am waking up in the night stressing. I thought after reading here for months, I would not make stupid newbie mistakes, but noooooooo.
Anyway, test showed ammonia at 1.0 so I began making water changes, 15g, daily, ammonia went down to .50, didn't go any lower, so made a 50% water change, and still didn't lower it. What the heck???? Testing kit is fine, my QT tank is correctly and regularly showing 0. Shouldn't it have at least for the moment lowered it by 50%? I added amo lock, and Vacumed CC substrate, the two millenium 2000 filters look good now, but I had changed one of them and added back the carbon (to remove the Pimafix after treatment), with the 25% water change. the other was changed two weeks earlier. All that is in there now is a pair of clowns and pajama cardinal, and they are certainly not causing bio overload, so why is my ammonia not going down more with water changes? I think it is cycling again, but since other fish died, shouldn't bio load be lower, thus not putting out enough ammonia to make a 50% water change, not show lower on test?
I will summarize my potential mistakes:
1.) OVER FED
2.) Too many changes at once (and during hypo).
3.) Added baking soda and buffer wrong, (or at all...)
4.) Shouldn't have changed both filter pads so close together...
5.) should have waited longer to add that fish. (two weeks since last fish).
6.) 50% water change? (made it worse and began new cycle?)
7.) prolly ten more, I am blanking about right now...
I really like my CC substrate, and am FOWLR at this time. I know it can be done, as it used to be done all the time, but WOW.....
today, ammonia .50 Nitrites, between 0 and .25 on color chart, Nitrates 10, KH 179, Calcium 460.
Good news is, the clown fish that I thought I would lose too, are looking waaay better. Pajama cardinal was only one that didn't blink thru this whole thing.
So, shall I continue making water changes to insure safety of remaining 3 fish? If so how much. Seems like substrate and live rock should be able to handle these three little fishes ammonia. I still have to continue Hypo for few more weeks...
Thx
KathyW
55g, FOWLR/CC substrate/millenium 2000/UGF/25 lbs live rock, (shopping for skimmer...can you say duuuuuh).

 

[evilbob22]

I don't know much about hypo-ing, but shouldn't that have been done in the QT instead? Maybe now that you have less fish :nope: it might be an option if it wasn't before. I have heard that you shouldn't hypo a tank with live rock... some of the 'good' critters die from the lower salinity too... maybe that's where the ammonia is coming from.
I don't think the water change would have caused any problems, but at least you know where to look to avoid future problems. Especially the skimmer... that is probably the most important piece of equipment in SWA's.
Yes it can be done, but I would personally get rid of the UGF, if not the CC. The UGF is just a trap for crap.
Banguy has a great post about Ph, alkalinity, and calcium. I don't have a link for you, but do a search for it. It is a LOT more informative than the whole LFS staff and that customer put together.

My first saltwater tank:
55g with a UGF under CC, 3 powerheads for circulation, using tap water for top off and water changes, lots of micro algae

 

[meme]

:help: i have a nano reef tank with fish in it i hava a yellow tand a 6 stripe wrasse and a fire shrimp and a goby. the amonia level has risen and will not go away i have did several water changes help :scared: :notsure:

 

[mikeyjer]

Originally Posted by meme
:help: i have a nano reef tank with fish in it i hava a yellow tand a 6 stripe wrasse and a fire shrimp and a goby. the amonia level has risen and will not go away i have did several water changes help :scared: :notsure:

Well for one thing, I don't mind Tangs in small tanks, but a nano is wayyyy too small for a tang. At least get a 55 gallon for small tangs! How long has the tank been running? :scared:

 

[mikeyjer]

Originally Posted by lillibirdy
My 4 month old 55g crashed...Was in hypo for ich, I had just done a 25 percent water change to remove Pima fix, to help fish with ich), but I am pretty sure it was mainly because I OVER FED... aaaaaaarg. BUT, I ALSO added a fish, changed salt (from Coralife to Kent) and began using buffer (LFS insisted) bout that same time. I told him it was stable at 7.9 and that I had heard here that altho it was low, that stable was more important than messing with buffer and having it go up and down...he and another customer made me feel stupid, so I added tsp of baking soda for several days, then buffer. (which put alk waaaaaaaay high, calcium 480, PH 8.2) I probably shouldn't have done either of those things as it was in hypo for ich, tooooo many changes......anyway lost several fish. Pleeease don't kick me, doing a fine job of that myself, I am waking up in the night stressing. I thought after reading here for months, I would not make stupid newbie mistakes, but noooooooo.
Anyway, test showed ammonia at 1.0 so I began making water changes, 15g, daily, ammonia went down to .50, didn't go any lower, so made a 50% water change, and still didn't lower it. What the heck???? Testing kit is fine, my QT tank is correctly and regularly showing 0. Shouldn't it have at least for the moment lowered it by 50%? I added amo lock, and Vacumed CC substrate, the two millenium 2000 filters look good now, but I had changed one of them and added back the carbon (to remove the Pimafix after treatment), with the 25% water change. the other was changed two weeks earlier. All that is in there now is a pair of clowns and pajama cardinal, and they are certainly not causing bio overload, so why is my ammonia not going down more with water changes? I think it is cycling again, but since other fish died, shouldn't bio load be lower, thus not putting out enough ammonia to make a 50% water change, not show lower on test?
I will summarize my potential mistakes:
1.) OVER FED
2.) Too many changes at once (and during hypo).
3.) Added baking soda and buffer wrong, (or at all...)
4.) Shouldn't have changed both filter pads so close together...
5.) should have waited longer to add that fish. (two weeks since last fish).
6.) 50% water change? (made it worse and began new cycle?)
7.) prolly ten more, I am blanking about right now...
I really like my CC substrate, and am FOWLR at this time. I know it can be done, as it used to be done all the time, but WOW.....
today, ammonia .50 Nitrites, between 0 and .25 on color chart, Nitrates 10, KH 179, Calcium 460.
Good news is, the clown fish that I thought I would lose too, are looking waaay better. Pajama cardinal was only one that didn't blink thru this whole thing.
So, shall I continue making water changes to insure safety of remaining 3 fish? If so how much. Seems like substrate and live rock should be able to handle these three little fishes ammonia. I still have to continue Hypo for few more weeks...
Thx
KathyW
55g, FOWLR/CC substrate/millenium 2000/UGF/25 lbs live rock, (shopping for skimmer...can you say duuuuuh).
First, don't try to make sooo much changes all at once but I see you already know that. Second, hypo can and will kill off stuffs on live rocks and that is probably where the ammonia is coming from. You probably should take those rocks out and give it a good scrub and keep up your water changes. Run carbon too!!! You shouldn't do hypo on your display tank, next time you should do it in a QT tank. Third, I would suggest after scrubbing those rocks, you should move'em to another tank to re-cure them again. Good Luck! :happyfish

 

[jacklax]

Hey Lillibirdy -
I'm going through some of the same stuff...and had some of the same questions. I'm a few weeks into hypo in the tank. (Had an ich outbreak in a tank I just inherited. It was in bad shape when I got it home...and has been a battle ever since. Unfortunately I don't have a QT tank...yet.) Anyway...I removed most of my live rock and placed it in a tub...just leaving the base rock for cover. As the salt level dropped I began noticing some dead worms on the remaining rocks and sand. I vacuumed out what I could...but I know there is more in there that I can't find...since then I've noticed a spike in nitrites and nitrates, with ammonia hovering at .1. Prior to this it was constistantly 0. I've also noticed that the effectiveness of my skimmer has decreased substantially with the lower salinity level...the water just doesn't bubble like it used to. With that being the case I've added some additional filtration in my sump for the time being. I can't wait for hypo to be done!

 

[lagger]

Originally Posted by lillibirdy
My 4 month old 55g crashed...Was in hypo for ich, I had just done a 25 percent water change to remove Pima fix, to help fish with ich), but I am pretty sure it was mainly because I OVER FED... aaaaaaarg. BUT, I ALSO added a fish, changed salt (from Coralife to Kent) and began using buffer (LFS insisted) bout that same time. I told him it was stable at 7.9 and that I had heard here that altho it was low, that stable was more important than messing with buffer and having it go up and down...he and another customer made me feel stupid, so I added tsp of baking soda for several days, then buffer. (which put alk waaaaaaaay high, calcium 480, PH 8.2) I probably shouldn't have done either of those things as it was in hypo for ich, tooooo many changes......anyway lost several fish. Pleeease don't kick me, doing a fine job of that myself, I am waking up in the night stressing. I thought after reading here for months, I would not make stupid newbie mistakes, but noooooooo.
Anyway, test showed ammonia at 1.0 so I began making water changes, 15g, daily, ammonia went down to .50, didn't go any lower, so made a 50% water change, and still didn't lower it. What the heck???? Testing kit is fine, my QT tank is correctly and regularly showing 0. Shouldn't it have at least for the moment lowered it by 50%? I added amo lock, and Vacumed CC substrate, the two millenium 2000 filters look good now, but I had changed one of them and added back the carbon (to remove the Pimafix after treatment), with the 25% water change. the other was changed two weeks earlier. All that is in there now is a pair of clowns and pajama cardinal, and they are certainly not causing bio overload, so why is my ammonia not going down more with water changes? I think it is cycling again, but since other fish died, shouldn't bio load be lower, thus not putting out enough ammonia to make a 50% water change, not show lower on test?
I will summarize my potential mistakes:
1.) OVER FED
2.) Too many changes at once (and during hypo).
3.) Added baking soda and buffer wrong, (or at all...)
4.) Shouldn't have changed both filter pads so close together...
5.) should have waited longer to add that fish. (two weeks since last fish).
6.) 50% water change? (made it worse and began new cycle?)
7.) prolly ten more, I am blanking about right now...
I really like my CC substrate, and am FOWLR at this time. I know it can be done, as it used to be done all the time, but WOW.....
today, ammonia .50 Nitrites, between 0 and .25 on color chart, Nitrates 10, KH 179, Calcium 460.
Good news is, the clown fish that I thought I would lose too, are looking waaay better. Pajama cardinal was only one that didn't blink thru this whole thing.
So, shall I continue making water changes to insure safety of remaining 3 fish? If so how much. Seems like substrate and live rock should be able to handle these three little fishes ammonia. I still have to continue Hypo for few more weeks...
Thx
KathyW
55g, FOWLR/CC substrate/millenium 2000/UGF/25 lbs live rock, (shopping for skimmer...can you say duuuuuh).
1) How much are you feeding? I feed a small amount everyday, however, in your case I would skip feedings every other day.
2) If your tank is cycled and established, you would have to dump a whole carton of food in there to have a 'crash'. Maybe you're bio-load was too high to begin with and adding fish wasn't the best idea. I could be wrong as I don't know what you stocking list is.
3) Unless you vacuum your substrate regulary, I'm sure by vacuuming you caused another mini spike. Thats why you didnt notice such a big drop in ammonia when you did your 50% WC.
Like everyone said, take it s..l..o..w......I know it's frustrating, but thats the best thing for your tan right now. Good luck.