Cyanide . . .

[drew_tt]

just wondering, but when cyanide is used for fish collection, is it used in the form of Hydrogen Cyanide (HCN)? or is it Zinc Cyanide? I dont know where I got the zinc from but I do remember reading something like it...
say you were to do a blood test on a fish for cyanide poisoning (the fish would be dead, of course...), what would be a good reactant?
I dont really have much of any background in chemistry, but hydrogen is always soluble, right? and what about cyanide?
say you were to mix in some Calcium chloride (common product..), wouldnt the calcium knock out the hydrogen in the HCN, and the calcium cyanide would precipitate out? this is assuming cyanide is not as soluble as the calcium, and then the chlorine would dissolve into the blood? if calcium chloride wouldnt work because cyanide is more soluble than the calciu, how about a compound with lead? the lead is more reative than the H, and is very insoluble, and unless the cyanide belongs to the nitrate/acetate/chlorate group, it would precipitate out?
all this is assuming the cyanide used to collect is in the form of HCL though
or would the cyanide concentration be too weak to even detect with a common test? I am very interested in this,but I cannot find any sort of resources or any info on it...
any help is very much appreciated...
Drew

 

[rockster]

CaCl2 + HCN ----> no reaction. CaCl2 is very stable compound, the elements have formed covalent bond and under ordinary circumstances, is difficult to break. HCN on the otherhand is an acid and is a proton donor, ie, it can easily give up it proton (H+) and an anion,CN-. However, There is no acceptor of the proton as CaCl2 is already "happy" with each other. The only reaction left is to re-form the bond HCN to form a more stable compound rather than existing in its ionic form. Same is true with lead. Now it is different if you react HCN with a weak base like NaHCO3,
HCN + NaHCO3

[hr]
> NaCN + H20 + CO2

 

[fallen04]

all i know is they pump a cloud of the cyanide in front of the fish to be caught and force the fish through the mix. i would think the remaining cyanide that is in the fish would absorb into the tissue and the rest would be flushed out of the fish naturally. so i think it would take a more in depth testing

 

[steamboat1569]

Here is a link to an article you might find intersting.
<a href="http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m1076/n8_v40/21222051/p1/article.jhtml" target="_blank">www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m1076/n8_v40/21222051/p1/article.jhtml</a>

 

[drew_tt]

thanks for the link
Rockster, can you think of any reactant that would precipitate out a result? or give some sort of clear recognizable result?
also, wouldnt the calcium be more attracted to the CN- than the Cl-, therefore it would react? I really dont know much chem, sorry... :S
Drew
*wishing he was still in school atm *

 

[steamboat1569]

I really don't mean this in a bad way, but, you guys are making this into a scientific debate. It's pretty simple to me. Guy puts on swimsuit, loaded with cyanide, dives in, kills some fish, knocks out others. Takes surviving fish, sells them, makes profit.
Cyanide has been used as an anesthetic for about 4000 yrs, although a dangerous one. It will either kill or knock out.
I don't think that the diver is worried about the atomic stucture of the cyanide that he is using. he cares about the $ value of what he gets.

 

[drew_tt]

Im asking the questions because Im interested in a sort of home-made test for cyanide...
and yup, it is pretty simple how and why the cyanide is used, but I AM interested in the ""atomic structure""... thats why I asked...
Drew

 

[steamboat1569]

OK, fine with me!
The article that I gave a link to says that many forms of cyanide are used. Given that is the case, should you not be looking for several atomic structures. I found that link in approximately 20 seconds. Just think what you could find out in 20 minutes. I have used as many as 20 search engines and many hours trying to locate as much info as I can on many subjects. The world wide net is full of this information, you just have to search. Better yet, use something that people rarely use anymore, a book. Even with the internet age, they are still being written.

 

[drew_tt]

this isnt turning out right :s
but, yes I did search... Id say for almost an hour... I found way too many pages on cyanide uses and petitions and such to stop it, but I havent found any info to help me on what Im looking for...
Drew