Cyanobacteria Causes

juice_1080

juice_1080

Member
I have been having a problem with cyanobacteria for quite a while now and I am trying to get to a solution with it. I have a 29g tank and here are the readings.
API Master and Reef Test Kits
Amm: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0-3
Phos: 0
Calc: 420
pH: 8.2
kH: 9
I have plenty of flow in this tank. It is mostly on my sand with the occasional break out on a rock. I added a Phosphate sponge and it helped a little. I am not overfeeding, in fact I have not fed my tank anything but DT's Phytoplankton for the past 5 weeks. (Tank is fallow)
Everything I read mentions that it is caused by Phosphates but I am not reading any in my tank at all so what else could it be? I am using Oceanic Natural Sea Salt and RO/DI water if that helps at all.
I want to win this battle and am getting sick of it. There has to be something other than Phosphate that is allowing this stuff to thrive in my tank. Maybe there is an invert that will eat it?
Any opinions/help would be greatly appreciated.
 
qreef

qreef

Member
check your ro/di water to see if it good enough. how old is the bulb? what kind of sand bed do you have?
 
juice_1080

juice_1080

Member
I don't have a TDS Meter at the moment ( I know I need to get one, my system didn't come with one) but my RO System is only 6 months old and making 2-3Gallons Per Week (Thats all I run it) I have 1-2" of what I though was CC but from the looks of it it is the same thing everyone else here seems to use. It looks like CC to me but alot finer and white. I am not positive on the bulb. My dad gave me his lighting when I set it up since he wasn't using it 3x27w T8 and then I picked up a 2x18w T5NO strip a couple months ago. I am sure the bulbs in the T8 setup are getting on the old side. Honestly I never even though about spectrum change as a cause of this. I don't have any other algae problems in the tank other than some Grape Calupera (which was a mistake) and Coraline growing like crazy. My corals also are growing pretty steadily.
Thats one thing I would rather not invest in though at the moment since I am going to be moving this tank up to a 75g in 2-3 months.
I just thought of this too and maybe it doesn't apply at all, I just started a 5.5g tank and I am starting to see a little cyano in this tank as well (although it could be because it is still cycling). This tank has a brand new Coralife Mini Aqualight 2x9w or 2x18w (don't remember) PC setup. Unless it is just from the cycling in this tank, it has to be something that both tanks have in common (which could just be that some of the LR came out of the 29g)
Thanks for the input, I will look into ordering a TDS Meter with my next paycheck.
 
juice_1080

juice_1080

Member
Water Flow Comes from:
Penguin 350 HOB: 350gph
Koralia #1: 400gph
Aquaclear 3000: 300gph
Rio HOB Nano Skimmer: 110gph
Total 1160gph/29Gallons=40xFlow Rate (WOW never calculated that before)
As far as quality every thing else seems good. Specs of testing in first post. I run 4 Carbon pads in the Penguin 350 as well as 2 3x4" pieces of Phosphate sponge.
The skimmer is probably not extremely efficient. It produces about 6-8oz of skimmate a week. It looks green and nasty like it should though.
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Cayno does not need phosphates to survive once you have it uses photocintisis to make its own food as bacteria I have read that the best way to cure it is with an antibiotic such as myacin I WOULD DO MY OWN RESERCH BEFORE I TRYED THIS METHOD but again as I said it seems to be the way to go
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
this is just my experience with Cyano.
Cyano bacteria lives on nutirents that are trapped underneath the mat.
To get rid of them we need to remove the nutrients and the source of the nutrients.
As we understand nutrients in this context they can and do come from a number of different sources.
Water, food, livestock waste, rockwork, substrate, flow.
Sound like you are going to address water quality and that feeding and livestock waste is not an issue.
Let's then invstigate the rockwork and sand. Live rock and live sand can and do come to us with nutrient and nutrient potential alread there. The rocks as the tank cycles will naturally have die-off. This die-off or detritus will stay on the rock and will also be shed from the rocks. This is an ongoing process and will continue to "generate" detritus. To remove this, in this case expecially from the affected areas in your tank there are a couple of things to do. First at water change and or any time you get the urge take a pc. of airline or other hose and siphon the cyano off the affected area. You will see that it come up very easily almost like a blanket being sucked. Then if at water change time take a turkey baster and blow the rockwork off. You will be amazed at the amount of detritus this stirs up. This gets it into the water column for removal by your filter and the water change itself. Remember 10% + per week religously to get the upper hand here. The same procedure goes for the affected area of the sand only instead of the turkey baster get a chopstick or something like that and gently stir only the affected area, again to get the detritus up and into the water column. Small areas only here, don't want to stir up a quarter of the sandbe or anything like that.
Then finally the flow. What you have is good according to your calculations above as far as total flow but is doing nothing if the flow is not affecting the areas where the cyano is. There is a need to get enough flow over the affected area so that the detritus cannot settle there in the first place. This does not mean a hurricane that stirs up such a cloud that you can't see, but enough to see that the water is moving well over the area.
Kind of long winded but cyano is really an easy thing to beat if you understand what fuels it. It takes a while to beat but it is not indestructable.
 
ags

ags

Member
Slightly off topic but if you are upgrading I suggest a 90 vs a 75. You will love the depth of the 90. The rest of the dimensions are the same. The depth allows for cooler aquascaping.
 
juice_1080

juice_1080

Member
I would have already had a TDS Meter when then whole google checkout thing was going on but they didn't have enough left when I ordered and it got cancelled. Then I just forgot about it.
Sand bed was a mix of LS from bags and Dry Sand.
With the exception of 2 (about 5-10lbs worth) rocks all my rock was dry from the start and seeded with those 2 and the little bits that corals came on. I think i have somewhere between 30-75lb of rock in my tank right now. I never wieghed it but going by how small a 2lb chunk of LR was for my pico I know I have plenty. I read "Reefkeeperz's guide to a proper water change" and picked up the idea to pull my PH of the glass and blow around as much detritus as I can when I do water changes and I do this at least every other time I do changes (weekly remove 2 gallons and add 3). Once a month I also try to do a 5-6 gallon change to make up for any variance because of the somewhat small changes I do weekly. I also vacuum the substrate anytime I notice that it is getting bad which generally ends up every 2-3 months. I also clean the glass 1-3 times a week other than the back because I cannot access it. I feel that I take pretty good care of my tank but feel free to contradict me if you want.
Right now I have my Aquaclear right under my HOB on the right side blowing straight at the glass which seems to deflect it in all directions. My Koralia is is on the left side of the tank on the side glass facing the right wall and angled slightly down and to the front.
Now that I think of it most of my cyano trouble is in the left front corner. There isn't alot of flow there but I liked that because that is where I would place any frags so that they could grab onto the substrate for glueing.
When I watch the bubbles ( I have a mild microbubble problem) I can tell that there is definately flow there but not quite as much as the rest of the tank. I have still not found a better combination of powerhead locations though as many times as I have moved things around in this tank.
 
juice_1080

juice_1080

Member
Originally Posted by Ags
http:///forum/post/2478959
Slightly off topic but if you are upgrading I suggest a 90 vs a 75. You will love the depth of the 90. The rest of the dimensions are the same. The depth allows for cooler aquascaping.
I already have the 75g tank sitting in storage in the basement of the apartment....I am just waiting till I move to my new house at the end of the semester. (May) I actually prefer the look of shallower tanks. I don't have anything above the 2/3 mark of my tank now besides Powerheads. Plus I would need more powerful (more expensive) lighting for a taller tank.
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
Originally Posted by juice_1080
http:///forum/post/2478975
Now that I think of it most of my cyano trouble is in the left front corner. There isn't alot of flow there but I liked that because that is where I would place any frags so that they could grab onto the substrate for glueing.
When I watch the bubbles ( I have a mild microbubble problem) I can tell that there is definately flow there but not quite as much as the rest of the tank. I have still not found a better combination of powerhead locations though as many times as I have moved things around in this tank.
Cool this is a great discussion. Think of that area like a sand dune, or a snow hill, or even a river emptying into the lake or ocean. When the wind or the river current slows down, important description here, whatever is suspended in the wind (sand-snow) or in the current (sand-silt-mud) is deposited along that slow down. it would be impossible in the real world to keep those things suspended for any longer a period of time. But in our closed systems if we can keep it suspended enough so that it is grabbed by the next area of flow (this randomness we keep talking about when we discuss flow in our tanks, then it can still be addressed by our filter, skimmer, water change etc.
The other thing that I did not address previously in the need to have a balanced CUC that works these areas also. For the substrate this would include some Nassarius and Cerith snails that go into the sandbed and eat detritus (Nassarius) and algae (Cerith) from the bed as well as snails and hermits eating it off the rocks.
Gosh I hope this all makes sense to you cas I can see it in my feeble old mind.
 
juice_1080

juice_1080

Member
Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/2479031
Cool this is a great discussion. Think of that area like a sand dune, or a snow hill, or even a river emptying into the lake or ocean. When the wind or the river current slows down, important description here, whatever is suspended in the wind (sand-snow) or in the current (sand-silt-mud) is deposited along that slow down. it would be impossible in the real world to keep those things suspended for any longer a period of time. But in our closed systems if we can keep it suspended enough so that it is grabbed by the next area of flow (this randomness we keep talking about when we discuss flow in our tanks, then it can still be addressed by our filter, skimmer, water change etc.
The other thing that I did not address previously in the need to have a balanced CUC that works these areas also. For the substrate this would include some Nassarius and Cerith snails that go into the sandbed and eat detritus (Nassarius) and algae (Cerith) from the bed as well as snails and hermits eating it off the rocks.
Gosh I hope this all makes sense to you cas I can see it in my feeble old mind.

Thanks for sticking with me on this one. Good comparison BTW.
The only way I could see picking up the flow in the corner without lacking in another area of the tank would be to add another PH. I can't honestly see doing this as with all the things in/on my tank it is becoming an eyesore as it is.
Here is a list of my CUC:
18 Blue Leg Hermits (Thats what I bought but some appear to be different)
6 Nassarius Snails
12 Astrea Snails
1 Fighting Conch
1 Sally Light Foot Crab
I also see Brittle Stars sticking out of the crevices of rocks and the occasional tiny little snails (1/16-1/8" in size)
Also since my tank is fallow I have a massive herd of Cope and Iso Pods running around all over the place (I doubt these count as part of the CUC)
Other than Corals, a Featherduster, random sponges, and a Crocea Clam thats pretty much everything in my tank (That I know about)
I just crammed some Phosphate sponge into the area where there is supposed to be a carbon pad in my skimmer and it seemed to take care of most of the micro-bubbles. I wish I would have thought of that months ago though.
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
Got a FTS you could show us or point us to your tank thread? Just so I could see the position of the Koralia.
By the way I saw the beer brewers thread title out there. I am not a beer brewer but I do make homemade wine. About 200 gallons per year. Have been for about 10 years now.
 
juice_1080

juice_1080

Member
Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/2479082
Got a FTS you could show us or point us to your tank thread? Just so I could see the position of the Koralia.
By the way I saw the beer brewers thread title out there. I am not a beer brewer but I do make homemade wine. About 200 gallons per year. Have been for about 10 years now.
Here is a FTS. I did a water change Sunday night so there isn't much of a Cyano buildup right now. Sorry about the glare as well.

Yea I just started beer last Friday, I am so excited to try it but I still have a while to wait. I also have a friend that brews homemade wine as well. He only does about 20 gallons a year though. I know he has been doing it for at least 5 years (his whole family does it). He makes an amazing Elderberry Wine.
 
digitydash

digitydash

Active Member
DT's will make algae if used more than what is needed by your corals.I will put DT's in my tank in the morning by time I get home their is a film on my glass.
 
juice_1080

juice_1080

Member
I have slowed my DT dosage down to about 2 capfuls a week over the past month or 2. Mostly just because I forget about it.
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
Is that a power head in the upper right side?
I can see where the configuration you have right now makes a dead spot in the front left corner. I think I would put the koralia over there too and point it toward the middle of the left front corner. I think I would also spread the HOB's apart, so one is over to the left more. Doesn't matter which just to get some more balance in there. Then if that is a power head in the upper right I would move it to the middle in between the HOB's. our tank does look nice though, some good color on the rocks and a nice clam down there in front.
Just a thought.
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
yeah I would put the Koralia there at the back of that wall and point it at the opposite front corner.
 
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