Cycle
- Thread starter sallen
- Start date
sepulatian
Moderator
Originally Posted by sallen
thanks u have been good
this is you, is it not?
thanks u have been good
this is you, is it not?
sepulatian
Moderator
Originally Posted by ruaround
this is who???
sallen, she put a post on the disease forum and is saying this tank is old and cyled.
this is who???
sallen, she put a post on the disease forum and is saying this tank is old and cyled.
murph
Active Member
I guess maybe I am old school or somehow unenlightened but not only do I not frown upon cycling with damsels I believe that it leads to a much more stable tank to introduce your intended live stock to.
The important part is purchasing cured rock. Not the "semi cured" rock most LFS sell as cured and if introduced to established tanks in large enough quantities could mean a lot of trouble for there customers tanks and if used in cycleing tanks will continue its cureing process and spike ammonia levels well above what is necessary to cycle a tank as will a dead shrimp.
The way I cycle with damsels is pretty well laid out here, copy and pasted from a different thread. Its in no way meant to start the debate all over again but just info for sullen. In the end the decision how to cycle a tank is up to the hobbyist and I have no problems with how one goes about it or any criticisms of my methods.
[hr]
Cycling tanks need a consistent, natural, reoccurring source of ammonia; i.e. a live damsels.
Spiking this level with a shrimp carcass or decaying food is going to produce way more ammonia than necessary and result in dead rock that you payed 5 to ten dollars a pound for.
Ionic ammonia is of no worry. Free ammonia will kill fish and any life on your rock. Chemical test kits will only tell you the total ammonia levels in your tank. An ammonia sensor will tell you the levels of free ammonia in the tank. These free ammonia are easily detoxified by amquel or other such products.
When cycling a tank in this fashion I rarely see total ammonia levels beyond the .25 range and like clock work they fall to zero at the 8 day mark. Free ammonia usually never appears after the initial amquel dose when setting up the tank. Nitrite levels also rarely go beyond the .25 mark and are only considered toxic at .50 to begin with and fall to zero in half the time it took the ammonia. About a twelve day cycle.
Now lets say we used a raw shrimp or decaying food. We spiked the hell out of the ammonia but that's OK in a couple of weeks it fell to zero but then we see a high nitrite level but also OK it fell to zero after a couple of weeks also. Unfortunately with these large spikes, at the end of the cycle we also see a huge amount of the cycles end product. Nitrate.
OK now all we have to do is totally screw around with the bio load of this tank by performing a large water change to bring down those nitrates then add a fish we wish to have with us for some time. Problem is this new fish introduction along with a fairly unstable tank chemistry has risen my ammonia levels and the fish is totally stressed and near death. Its a common story and can be easily avoided.
Cycle with the damsels, cured rock and amquel or similar product. It will provide for a short cycle. At the end of that cycle do your water change to bring down any nitrates (they should be somewhere around the ten level unless you have totally spike the bajeezes out of the ammonia with dead body in the tank). Wait another day or two remove the damsels (odds are your not quite happy with the way you set up the rock to begin with anyway ) toss them in a bucket. Replace any rock you had to move to catch them and head down to the LFS to buy some of your intended livestock that mirrors the bio load you had on the tank with the damsels.
Its as simple as that and by no means "cruel". If free ammonia levels were monitored and not allowed to rise the damsel(s) has not been harmed in the least.
The important part is purchasing cured rock. Not the "semi cured" rock most LFS sell as cured and if introduced to established tanks in large enough quantities could mean a lot of trouble for there customers tanks and if used in cycleing tanks will continue its cureing process and spike ammonia levels well above what is necessary to cycle a tank as will a dead shrimp.
The way I cycle with damsels is pretty well laid out here, copy and pasted from a different thread. Its in no way meant to start the debate all over again but just info for sullen. In the end the decision how to cycle a tank is up to the hobbyist and I have no problems with how one goes about it or any criticisms of my methods.
[hr]
Cycling tanks need a consistent, natural, reoccurring source of ammonia; i.e. a live damsels.
Spiking this level with a shrimp carcass or decaying food is going to produce way more ammonia than necessary and result in dead rock that you payed 5 to ten dollars a pound for.
Ionic ammonia is of no worry. Free ammonia will kill fish and any life on your rock. Chemical test kits will only tell you the total ammonia levels in your tank. An ammonia sensor will tell you the levels of free ammonia in the tank. These free ammonia are easily detoxified by amquel or other such products.
When cycling a tank in this fashion I rarely see total ammonia levels beyond the .25 range and like clock work they fall to zero at the 8 day mark. Free ammonia usually never appears after the initial amquel dose when setting up the tank. Nitrite levels also rarely go beyond the .25 mark and are only considered toxic at .50 to begin with and fall to zero in half the time it took the ammonia. About a twelve day cycle.
Now lets say we used a raw shrimp or decaying food. We spiked the hell out of the ammonia but that's OK in a couple of weeks it fell to zero but then we see a high nitrite level but also OK it fell to zero after a couple of weeks also. Unfortunately with these large spikes, at the end of the cycle we also see a huge amount of the cycles end product. Nitrate.
OK now all we have to do is totally screw around with the bio load of this tank by performing a large water change to bring down those nitrates then add a fish we wish to have with us for some time. Problem is this new fish introduction along with a fairly unstable tank chemistry has risen my ammonia levels and the fish is totally stressed and near death. Its a common story and can be easily avoided.
Cycle with the damsels, cured rock and amquel or similar product. It will provide for a short cycle. At the end of that cycle do your water change to bring down any nitrates (they should be somewhere around the ten level unless you have totally spike the bajeezes out of the ammonia with dead body in the tank). Wait another day or two remove the damsels (odds are your not quite happy with the way you set up the rock to begin with anyway ) toss them in a bucket. Replace any rock you had to move to catch them and head down to the LFS to buy some of your intended livestock that mirrors the bio load you had on the tank with the damsels.
Its as simple as that and by no means "cruel". If free ammonia levels were monitored and not allowed to rise the damsel(s) has not been harmed in the least.
R
reflectz
Guest
Damsels are a group of fish, that are hardy and very tolerent of fluctuating water qualities and are used by some people to cycle their tanks.
vtfishies
Member
cycles are different with each tank..i cycled a 75 gal with 2 shrimp..took them out after 6 days..and 3 days later my cycle was complete..i totally missed the amm raise..and have zero trate,trite,amm, to this day..it depends on the tank and the hobbiest..good luck with ur choice and with ur cycle
chipmaker
Active Member
Dead crapbelongs in the trash not in the tank to initiate a cycle. Get some live sand or even dead sand but get some fairly decent liverock, add salt water and let it bump. Thats all you need to initiate a cycle. No live fish, or dead critters needed. The object is to introduce bacteria, not create a cesspool of poluted skanky water........Once it cycles add a single fish each week or so until yu have it stocked with the critters you want. Shrimp and crabs etc can allbe added at once, but do the fish one at a time or two small at a time, and let system adjust accordingly and it will be just as good as any other cycled tank is gonna be, no matter what method they use and the cycle will certainly be a quicker one as well..........
ruaround
Active Member
like to agree chip...but the object of the cycle is to introduce NITRIFYING bacteria which is created by the nitrogen cycle...which is started by introducing waste, decaying matter or food into the tank to get some ammonia present...
sure you can cycle your tank with uncured live rock...but IMO it will take longer to get it kick started...
sure you can cycle your tank with uncured live rock...but IMO it will take longer to get it kick started...