cycled again
- Thread starter deblin2
- Start date
broomer5
Active Member
Products such as Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Ammo-Lock and Kordon's AmQuel can give false readings on many ammonia test kits. Most of our ammonia/ammonium test kits use something called Nessler's reagent. Ammo-Lock can affect how this reagent works when doing the test.
I would stop adding the Ammo-Lock, if you haven't already.
Assuming your test kit is giving you accurate ammonia/nitrite readings - all I can add to this discussion is;
Use an ammonia test kit that has the reagent in a sealed foil pouch. FasTest is a decent kit - and not too expensive.
Dry tabs, test strips and liquid reagent ammonia kits are not the most reliable.
A tank that is constently showing measurable ammonia - then zero - then ammonia again, is a sure sign that there's one or several things occuring.
The things I would focus on is your bacteria population, your feeding habits, your stocking levels and your freshwater source.
I'm sure you've been looking at these things - as you've indicated.
Believe it or not - it's possible to "over-maintain" a tank.
Doing weekly cleanings and water changes may be contributing to the problem. Each time we clean the pieces/parts of our filtering equipment - we strip off the bacterial slime. It's this bacterial slime that is in contact with the "moving" water.
Moving water normally means aerated water to some degree.
The bacterial slime needs oxygen. The bacteria need oxygen to convert ammonia to nitrite, and nitrite to nitrate.
By removing this slime weekly - you're stripping off this slime. It's may look nasty - but in reality - it's the very key for good biological filtration when using any "power" filter.
The slime even exists in our protein skimmers. Cleaning them too often can also remove this slime.
It could easily be a combination of things that you are experiencing.
Cleaning equipment too often.
Tendency of overfeeding in the past.
Test kit may or may not be reporting accurate results.
Low oxygen levels for bacteria to function efficiently.
Ammo-Lock causing inaccurate test readings.
pH too high or too low - too high and the ammonia is far more lethal to the fish/inverts. Too low pH and it may encourage nuisance algae growth. Dying algae produces ammonia as well.
Saltmix - what type are you using ?
It's not uncommon to get a positive "ammonia/ammonium" reading on newly mixed saltwater - IF - you use it right away.
In other words - are you aerating your recently mixed up saltwater overnight BEFORE adding it to the tank.
If so - great.
If not - as you add this new saltwater to the tank during water changes - you may be getting back a positive ammonia reading.
Chlorine/Chloramine - if your tap water purifier does not remove these elements from your tap water - and you use it for saltmixing and top offs - you could be damaging your bacteria populations.
The Catch 22 here is this - you want to get rid of any chlorine compounds - so you use a product that does so. Again though, some of these products like Ammo-Lock or AmQuel can affect the ammonia test kit results.
If you run your tapwater purifier into a large container, and place a powerhead in the freshwater - let it run a day or two - much if not most of the chlorine will dissipate into the air. It will outgas and leave the freshwater as a gas.
Then - no need to add a dechlorinator product.
Using tap water is always a cause of concern - especially if you do so with this tapwater purifier.
What type of purifier are you using ?
RO ?
RO/DI ?
Carbon ?
I would let the tank settle.
Don't clean parts as often.
Start using store bought RO water if possible.
Stop doing weekly water changes - move to a monthly schedule.
Lighting feed the tank every other day.
Make sure water is moving.
Open the air vent on the Millinium2000.
Keep running your skimmer 24/7
Don't mess with the substrate at all.
Get an ammonia test kit such as FasTest.
See what happens.
I would stop adding the Ammo-Lock, if you haven't already.
Assuming your test kit is giving you accurate ammonia/nitrite readings - all I can add to this discussion is;
Use an ammonia test kit that has the reagent in a sealed foil pouch. FasTest is a decent kit - and not too expensive.
Dry tabs, test strips and liquid reagent ammonia kits are not the most reliable.
A tank that is constently showing measurable ammonia - then zero - then ammonia again, is a sure sign that there's one or several things occuring.
The things I would focus on is your bacteria population, your feeding habits, your stocking levels and your freshwater source.
I'm sure you've been looking at these things - as you've indicated.
Believe it or not - it's possible to "over-maintain" a tank.
Doing weekly cleanings and water changes may be contributing to the problem. Each time we clean the pieces/parts of our filtering equipment - we strip off the bacterial slime. It's this bacterial slime that is in contact with the "moving" water.
Moving water normally means aerated water to some degree.
The bacterial slime needs oxygen. The bacteria need oxygen to convert ammonia to nitrite, and nitrite to nitrate.
By removing this slime weekly - you're stripping off this slime. It's may look nasty - but in reality - it's the very key for good biological filtration when using any "power" filter.
The slime even exists in our protein skimmers. Cleaning them too often can also remove this slime.
It could easily be a combination of things that you are experiencing.
Cleaning equipment too often.
Tendency of overfeeding in the past.
Test kit may or may not be reporting accurate results.
Low oxygen levels for bacteria to function efficiently.
Ammo-Lock causing inaccurate test readings.
pH too high or too low - too high and the ammonia is far more lethal to the fish/inverts. Too low pH and it may encourage nuisance algae growth. Dying algae produces ammonia as well.
Saltmix - what type are you using ?
It's not uncommon to get a positive "ammonia/ammonium" reading on newly mixed saltwater - IF - you use it right away.
In other words - are you aerating your recently mixed up saltwater overnight BEFORE adding it to the tank.
If so - great.
If not - as you add this new saltwater to the tank during water changes - you may be getting back a positive ammonia reading.
Chlorine/Chloramine - if your tap water purifier does not remove these elements from your tap water - and you use it for saltmixing and top offs - you could be damaging your bacteria populations.
The Catch 22 here is this - you want to get rid of any chlorine compounds - so you use a product that does so. Again though, some of these products like Ammo-Lock or AmQuel can affect the ammonia test kit results.
If you run your tapwater purifier into a large container, and place a powerhead in the freshwater - let it run a day or two - much if not most of the chlorine will dissipate into the air. It will outgas and leave the freshwater as a gas.
Then - no need to add a dechlorinator product.
Using tap water is always a cause of concern - especially if you do so with this tapwater purifier.
What type of purifier are you using ?
RO ?
RO/DI ?
Carbon ?
I would let the tank settle.
Don't clean parts as often.
Start using store bought RO water if possible.
Stop doing weekly water changes - move to a monthly schedule.
Lighting feed the tank every other day.
Make sure water is moving.
Open the air vent on the Millinium2000.
Keep running your skimmer 24/7
Don't mess with the substrate at all.
Get an ammonia test kit such as FasTest.
See what happens.
deblin2
Member
Thank you for your help. I can use all I can get. Let's see if I can go through this where it will make more sense.
1. I have stopped using Ammonia Lock
2. The tap water purifier is supposed to remove chlorine and chloramine. The box says it makes perfect deionized aquarium water with super activated carbon and color chanign Ion-Exchanbe resin.
3. I will get the new test kit tomorrow.
4. I am bad about not waiting long enough when mixing my salt water. Sometimes I do, but a lot of times I will go ahead and do the water change if I have time.
5. I have done weekly water changes but will stop. Unfortuately it is too late to stop the last one I have done.
6. I have cleaned equipment too often. I no longer have anything but the skimmer, two powerheads for circulation, heater, and a chiller which I think I forgot to mention before. That shouldn't really matter though.
7. The skimmer does run all the time.
8. ph is about 8.6 if the test is right. It is old so it may not be. I have had a lot of algea. It is much better right now. If test is correct, could the high ph be cause from too many water changes?
9. I never have managed to get the clean-up crew because there always seems to be some little problem where the tank is not ready.
Now for the questions:
1. I just did a water change and did not wait before I put the newly mixed water in. My ammonia readings were off and every time I tested they were slightly different. Could my water really be o.k.? The ammonia was just about .25 - .50. Most of the time .25 Are you saying that newly mixed salt water can cause false readings or cause you to have ammonia? I use Instant Ocean Salt.
2. I took off all of my filters. Do I need to put the Millinium back on and get it started again? Do I put the filter media back in or just run the water through it with no filter media and without the plastic in the back that the bacteria builds up on?
3. What do I do about low oxygen? How do I remedy that problem?
4. When I do a monthly water change, how many gallons do I change out?
5. If ph is too high, how do I go about lowering it?
I appreciate any advice you can give me and I have been trying to follow the advice given to me. What I have been doing has not worked for me. Thank you again.
1. I have stopped using Ammonia Lock
2. The tap water purifier is supposed to remove chlorine and chloramine. The box says it makes perfect deionized aquarium water with super activated carbon and color chanign Ion-Exchanbe resin.
3. I will get the new test kit tomorrow.
4. I am bad about not waiting long enough when mixing my salt water. Sometimes I do, but a lot of times I will go ahead and do the water change if I have time.
5. I have done weekly water changes but will stop. Unfortuately it is too late to stop the last one I have done.
6. I have cleaned equipment too often. I no longer have anything but the skimmer, two powerheads for circulation, heater, and a chiller which I think I forgot to mention before. That shouldn't really matter though.
7. The skimmer does run all the time.
8. ph is about 8.6 if the test is right. It is old so it may not be. I have had a lot of algea. It is much better right now. If test is correct, could the high ph be cause from too many water changes?
9. I never have managed to get the clean-up crew because there always seems to be some little problem where the tank is not ready.
Now for the questions:
1. I just did a water change and did not wait before I put the newly mixed water in. My ammonia readings were off and every time I tested they were slightly different. Could my water really be o.k.? The ammonia was just about .25 - .50. Most of the time .25 Are you saying that newly mixed salt water can cause false readings or cause you to have ammonia? I use Instant Ocean Salt.
2. I took off all of my filters. Do I need to put the Millinium back on and get it started again? Do I put the filter media back in or just run the water through it with no filter media and without the plastic in the back that the bacteria builds up on?
3. What do I do about low oxygen? How do I remedy that problem?
4. When I do a monthly water change, how many gallons do I change out?
5. If ph is too high, how do I go about lowering it?
I appreciate any advice you can give me and I have been trying to follow the advice given to me. What I have been doing has not worked for me. Thank you again.
broomer5
Active Member
Deblin2
pH of 8.6 is rare - not impossible - but rare.
I would get a second opinion or buy a new test kit.
Test kits do expire.
Again, foil sealed pouches are normally the best to use.
FasTest or Salifert are good pH test kits in my experience.
Hoping you get the new ammonia kit today - anxious to hear the readings.
Whenever you get different readings on a test kit - different back to back test readings - there's a huge cause for concern.
If you test for ammonia - and get .25 mg/L
THEN
Do another test immediately afterwards - and get .50 mg/L
Something is wrong
Either you changed something in your procedure - or the kit's bad.
Yes - It's common to show ammonia in newly mixed saltwater.
Instant Ocean - after mixing and testing it - I always test positive for ammonia-N in the new saltwater.
Readings of .2 mg/L is what I see when I mix it here.
There are ammonia/ammonium ions present in Instant Ocean, and most other synthetic sea salts. Not a lot - but they are there for sure.
Low oxygen is prevented by insuring good water circulation - especially at the tankwater surface.
Directing a powerhead flow towards the surface to get that water rippling effect almost always cures this possible problem.
Personally - I'm leaning towards overcleaning the tank, the addition of AmmoLock and bad test kits - as possible causes of your woes.
When we think something is one way - but it's really not - then all of our actions to correct may be the wrong actions.
If you had pH 8.6 and ammonia present all the time - I would imagine you'd be seeing more fish deaths too.
New test kit time me thinks
pH of 8.6 is rare - not impossible - but rare.
I would get a second opinion or buy a new test kit.
Test kits do expire.
Again, foil sealed pouches are normally the best to use.
FasTest or Salifert are good pH test kits in my experience.
Hoping you get the new ammonia kit today - anxious to hear the readings.
Whenever you get different readings on a test kit - different back to back test readings - there's a huge cause for concern.
If you test for ammonia - and get .25 mg/L
THEN
Do another test immediately afterwards - and get .50 mg/L
Something is wrong
Either you changed something in your procedure - or the kit's bad.
Yes - It's common to show ammonia in newly mixed saltwater.
Instant Ocean - after mixing and testing it - I always test positive for ammonia-N in the new saltwater.
Readings of .2 mg/L is what I see when I mix it here.
There are ammonia/ammonium ions present in Instant Ocean, and most other synthetic sea salts. Not a lot - but they are there for sure.
Low oxygen is prevented by insuring good water circulation - especially at the tankwater surface.
Directing a powerhead flow towards the surface to get that water rippling effect almost always cures this possible problem.
Personally - I'm leaning towards overcleaning the tank, the addition of AmmoLock and bad test kits - as possible causes of your woes.
When we think something is one way - but it's really not - then all of our actions to correct may be the wrong actions.
If you had pH 8.6 and ammonia present all the time - I would imagine you'd be seeing more fish deaths too.
New test kit time me thinks
deblin2
Member
I just got back from the lfs and got great news. My water was perfect. Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate was almost 0 and the ph was not 8.6. It looked about 8.2. They told me it was just right too. I could not find the test kits you suggested so I will have to go to another town to see if they have it or maybe order one. I live in the country so it is about 35 miles to the nearest lfs. I did get some small blue legged hermits to add to the tank. I added 7 small ones. I didn't want to add too much at one time. I thought that would be o.k.
What do I do from here? How much water do I change out when it gets time (which will be about a month from now)?
Thank you again!
What do I do from here? How much water do I change out when it gets time (which will be about a month from now)?
Thank you again!
broomer5
Active Member
Hey that's great news for sure
Glad to hear your water's in good shape.
If it were me - and I had a 38 gallon tank with your live rock and sand - I'd do about a 5 gallon water change.
Why ?
Because you have less than 38 gallons of actual saltwater in there - and mixing up saltwater in a five gallon bucket is pretty easy to manage.
This would give you somewhere between 10-15% water change I suppose.
Have fun with your new hermits
Glad to hear your water's in good shape.
If it were me - and I had a 38 gallon tank with your live rock and sand - I'd do about a 5 gallon water change.
Why ?
Because you have less than 38 gallons of actual saltwater in there - and mixing up saltwater in a five gallon bucket is pretty easy to manage.
This would give you somewhere between 10-15% water change I suppose.
Have fun with your new hermits